To ask if parenting really was easier in the past?

[germanbight]

My beloved grandma, who lived on a small farm and really ran it alone, always used to tut at toddlers/small children who were being naughty out and about and always told me that when she had her children it was all much simpler— especially in the baby phase.

Apparently routine kept all 4 children perfect from baby-hood. Baby fed every three hours until it slept through, all children off for an afternoon nap after dinner and bedtime a prompt 7:30 until they were 10. She always used to say that now parents adapt to fit the baby in their lives, but when she was having children they had to adapt to her life.

I just don’t see how it could’ve run on clockwork like that. Was it really that much easier? Just a case of endless CIO?

Yes it was lovely on a nice sunny day, unfortunately in the UK not all days are like that. On the rainy day if you were living in a small flat surrounded by wet nappies it wasn't much fun. Particularly if you didn't have a spin dryer, I could never squeeze them enough so you didn't end up with them dripping.

I remember my aunt having a still birth in the 50s. I remember her and my uncle and how heart broken they were, I remember the whole family in shock and my baby brother being held very close to my mum as she was frightened to put him down. I remember my gran, who had 13 kids, being in shock.

I don't think people were brutal, I don't think people took the death of a child any easier than they do today. I can remember my gran telling me about a woman in her village in Ireland, her baby died in the 1930s and the mother committed suicide. My gran had a toddler die in the 30s, it was Christmas and she never celebrated Christmas again in her life, even in her late 70s Christmas was unbearable because of the memories.

I think your view is horrible to be honest.

That's true.

Also there were more people around to help. So we would go to grandparents, aunts, family friends. There were lots of people who would look after us, so you didn't need to have babysitters or childminders as much. We used to play in each other's houses or gardens so they never had to entertain us, and just wouldn't have expected to have to, either.

Another thing was that adults were more scary and intimidating. Everyone used to tell you off all the time from people in shops, friends of parents, the park keeper, teachers, everyone. So there was an idea of a certain standard of behaviour which made it easier to discipline children, I think. Not saying this is a good thing though. I hated being scared all the time, and it meant if you didn't have loving parents you didn't get affection or attention from anyone.

I'm sitting here in tears, thinking of the mothers of the past being written off as callous as the death of a child not meaning as much to them as it would to anyone now.

I think this thread should be taken down because of that post. I'm truly horrified at the self satisfied nature if that is how modern women think.

I do agree with you, to a point, but I do find this a little dramatic

No one knows how people felt in the past and I will not try and guess how people felt back then to now

It might seem dramatic but as I said I remember my poor aunt when her baby died and my gran who cut herself off from everyone for a week a Christmas because of over 40 years of mourning her dead child so to be told "they" didn't feel like us is painful.

She probably just got lucky and had easy kids. Mine have always been quite routined from about 6 months onwards, just naturally. Not all kids are like that.

I do think parenting in general might have been easier in the past.

• more of a village around as people didn't typically move really far away from parents/family as much (especially pre industrial revolution
• no social media to make you fear using your intuition to parent
• kids just weren't expected to be in adult spaces as much so the standards of good behaviour was different
• fewer safety concerns so kids just went out to play for hours and hours
• not as much pressure to drag them to a million different clubs, activities and playdates and entertain them for hours on end

But also

• higher infant mortality
• more labour intensive to complete domestic tasks
• no guidance on parentig apart from how your own parents did it
• more interference from objectionable mothers in law

It depends on what you classify as 'parenting' as to whether you think it was easier or harder in the past. Also it depends on what era we are talking about.

The domestic aspects of everyday life would have been undoubtedly harder in the past and adding more people to the mix would have made it harder still. Basic things like washing clothes, cooking absolutely everything from scratch, getting groceries etc would have been more more challenging than today. There was also a greater emphasis on keeping an immaculate house and women were routinely shamed for not having a clean front door step or windows etc.

The actually 'looking after the child' element of parenting does seem easier. Expectations were lower and things like enrichment, safety and education were often valued less. Parents weren't expected to cart the children around to numerous extracurricular activities or help them with mounds of homework. Tummy time etc wasn't a thing and children were really expected to just get on with it without hassling parents too much.

I think overall that actual parenting is much harder today. The practical aspects of keeping a house were harder back then but generally this was considered the vocation of the woman. Now domestic chores aren't really factored into life at all and women are expected to work outside the home, be totally involved parents and keep on top of domestic chores. I do though think there was a very easy era for some mothers in the 80s/90s (when I was born) when the modern domestic appliances were common place but societal expectations of parenting were rooted in the past and intensive parenting was less of a thing. I think being a SAHM in that era was generally pretty easy.

Don't know if it was easier-certainly much more manual Labour. But different and maybe a bit more simple. Less to think about in terms of invisible threats to children (the insidious parts of the internet, more freely available harmful things in society. Granny wasn't worrying about county lines, online grooming, pro-ana content and vapes etc). Less comparing yourself to other parents. Less pressure to look 'hot' and have a meaningful hobby and all the stuff we judge ourselves on now. Less expectation or need to 'have it all' or to Work and run a home. On balance at this point in my life I think jd take it!

I find it interesting that several posters have used the phrase ‘beaten into submission’ and more have echoed that sentiment.

Whether you are using it literally or figuratively, do you really believe that most/the majority of children fitted into or around their parents’ lives by force?

In my, albeit fuzzy, recollection of my childhood, I fitted around my parents but it wasn’t a hardship in any way. It was just an adult centred life. And it was perfectly normal. When I misbehaved, there would be consequences such as having to leave the shop or restaurant but then I would learn not to repeat that behaviour. So my behaviour was pretty good and also improved with time.

I really don’t consider that being beaten into submission.

I’d agree with this. Completely normal to be booted out and return for meals. Lots of children about, no parental supervision. In cold weather we’d walk to local library ( a mile) or to local pool ( a mile and a half) if we were given money. Primary school aged.

Yes! That's what we did!

@DifficultBloodyWoman Many children were hit, and plenty were genuinely beaten, in a way/to an extent we would consider abuse now.

Hitting/beating children was of no interest to the authorities until relatively recently.

I was born in the 60s We were out and about on our own a lot but it felt safe we were normally in a group of kids and although parents were working we knew where to go in an emergency.
My parents had a lot of time for us my Dad worked long hours but always had time for a bedtime story.
My mum used to take us to the beach in the summer often with neighbours kids tagging along.
I have lots of memories of family board games and card games.
Sunday walks with my Dad chasing us and throwing fir cones.
Helping my Mum on the allotment or collecting fire wood. Baking together.
Our home was full of love.
My Gran also played a huge part in my life.
This thread has been good for me as after losing both parents it's been good to think of my childhood rather than remembering my poor Mum with dementia,which is so often in my mind.

My mother didn't drive so we walked to the shops every other day with one in the pram, one on pram seat and one walking. She didn't have a washing machine so hand washed & soaked terry nappies. I think it was pretty hard work. I don't ever remember her walking me to/from school and my brother (1 year older) just went off with his friends. My other brother (1 year younger) got hit by a car crossing the road on the walk home from school when he was far too young to be crossing a road by himself! Different times.
I think parents today have different challenges with phones/internet/drugs etc

Nowadays we're more aware of the psychology of children and the amount we need to invest in their development. The problem is that many of us don't have the village to make it manageable and it's mums mental health that suffers.

Both my parents talk of being hit as a way of controlling children - both have very different upbringings as well, but seemingly was the norm.

The stay at home mum again - seemingly an again a control thing. But if you where poor you worked as did both my Granny’s and my Great Granny.

I asked my Granny was it easier - she says no it was different. Children had more freedom younger, but also meant in a more vulnerable position. She remembers going out to work leaving her eldest at 9 to look after the other 4 younger children - but she knew any issues the neighbours would help rather than judge. Living in London she was worried her boys would join a gang (this is the 50/60) she wanted to keep them safe - but even she says it’s hard to know what they were up to!

Back then if you got hit by a teacher, my mum would always say, "what did YOU do to deserve that!!"

We are more sentimental as a society now because we can afford to be.

If it's of any consolation, people have always loved their children and loved them just as much as we do now. They have been interested in them, wanted to protect them, cherish them, and while parenting styles may have changed it's a falsehood that loving your children is a modern invention.

In 783, Charlemagne lost his infant daughter. She had a name (Hildegard), a proper burial, and the inscription on her resting place reads “Dear little maiden, you leave no little grief, stabbing your father’s heart with a dagger.”

There is an inscription on a child's grave from Ancient Rome that reads:

Here I commend to you, Fronto and Flaccilla,
your daughter, my joy and my delight,
Let young Erotion not be terrified by the black shades
and the gaping mouth of the Tartarian dog.
She would have completed six cold winters,
had she only lived but six more days.
Let her play happily between her aged parents,
and chatter my name with her lisping voice.
Let the turf covering her bones be soft and not hard,
and do not weigh heavily on that girl, Mother Earth,
For she was not heavy on you

Graves and funerals were expensive, grave markers even moreso. Why would they pay that money for someone they didn't care about? Lots of cultures throughout history had specific mourning periods, even for children - Rome for example had mourning that started at one month for a very young child and then it increased based on age. Who would spend a month in mourning for someone inconsequential?

My aunt died in the early 70s, she was hit by a car on her way to school. Another aunt died a year later, she was only little and choked on something she was eating. My nana never fully got over either of them. When she was looking after us she was militant about us sitting down, supervised, and chewing properly when eating. When she sent us out to play she told us every single time to take care next to the roads. She didn't spend all day every day crying because that's just not possible, grief never fully goes away it just gets less raw, but those losses left a mark.

One of my other aunt lost a baby in the 80s to what we now call SIDS. She also never got over it and for every baby coming into the family she would tell the parents to follow the advice about feet to foot, not sleeping on the sofa, etc. She would ask if their cot mattress was new, if it fitted well. She kept his little grave, the grass on it was always cut, the stone was cleaned, he always had a new plant or a little trinket on his birthday. Again, she didn't spend every day crying but she didn't ever not love him.

There was certainly less anxiety and pressure and expectations around parenting. If all your grandma was expected to do was look after her DCs then it was probably a lot easier to keep a routine. Today she would be expected to go out to work, have a great career while managing a complicated daily schedule of childcare drop offs, school drop offs and pick ups, sick children, extracurricular activities, homework, birthday parties, play dates, school gate mums, cleaning, shopping, cooking and anything else that you can think of.

The biggest thing I notice between now and when I had my Dd in 1990, is the expectation to “entertain” your Dc every single minute of the day. I worked 3 days a week, (going back to work at 12 weeks, which was heartbreaking for me!) but when at home we had one toddler group per week and that was it! Dd learnt to play on her own while I got on with jobs in the morning then we’d play outside/go for a walk in the afternoon.

My 2 year old granddaughter goes to something like an animal farm, soft play, etc every single day and she finds it so hard to stay in the house and play by herself for even 10 mins!

It might have been easier, but rates of childhood accidents (including fatal/lifechanging) were much higher, childhood illnesses were also more common, I don't think we would accept those things today as a fair swap. Look back in any family history and there are tragic awful stories that are much rarer today. And it was much easier for child abuse to go under the radar as "we don't talk about that".

Even during my childhood where we were quite supervised, my sister was constantly having accidents, I have 3 kids and they don't have anywhere near the amount of mishaps my sister had!

Yes it is a very strange idea that because child mortality was once higher people didn't mind as much when children died?? Of course they did. They just didn't know they could do anything about it. You read any account of children dying in disasters, mining accidents, etc - you will see descriptions of mothers wailing, falling to the floor, being incapacitated by grief. Just as they would today. My grandparents lost a baby in the 1950s, they didn't talk about it often but they never got over it. My grandad couldn't cope with seeing disabled people on TV (their son was disabled) and would change the channel.

We must take risks today that will be unthinkable in the future - maybe car travel - if one day in the future it is all integrated/automated, so that car crashes are completely eliminated, we will look back and think it's completely mad that we drove children around ourselves, we even sat them in contraptions called car seats because we knew how dangerous it was but they didn't always work. Are we unfeeling and uncaring for taking that risk? Not at all, because it's completely normal and even considered necessary in our society.

That's how it was then. You took the safety precautions that were known and normal at the time. Somebody taking excessive safety precautions would be seen as overprotective, perhaps even mentally ill.

I’m not sure how much independent play a two year old can do, realistically. I have a two year old and while he enjoys scooting round on his bike and pushing cars around and playing a bit with pretend food it doesn’t capture his attention for hours upon hours.

When people complain about ‘entertaining’ children it misses the point. Engaging with children and interacting with them and taking them to places of interest isn’t for entertainment purposes, it’s learning. As DS grows he’ll learn to read independently, complete puzzles and draw/make things, play imaginatively and so on. Right now he can’t, not because of my ridiculously indulgent parenting but because he’s two!