Gender recognition reform blocked

[hadntbeen]

Scottish Secretary Alister Jack has made an order under section 35 of the Scotland Act 1998, preventing the Scottish Parliament’s Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill from proceeding to Royal Assent.
Thank god 🙏🏻 I am an SNP supporter but this is one bill I was wholeheartedly against. I'm glad and relieved this decision was made.

I have no preference over wether or not Scotland remains part of the union. I'm not Scottish and i don't live in Scotland (or indeed the UK) and I'm merely interested in that I'm British and i live in a federal state with some similar kinds of issues. (Germany)

There will always be issues over the areas of responsiblity (for want of a better phrase) and tensions between the state itself and the different federated states/countries. The German constitution is very clear on which issues a state makes decisions (which only affect that state) such as Education, and other areas in which the state makes decisions (defence, for eg). Our constitution enshrines that (helpfully a written constitution) and has been in operation longer than the devolved parliaments in the UK.

Scottish devolution is enshrined in an act, which is a kind of constitution also outlines exactly what the areas of responsibility are. It is indeed possible that this document needs tweaking, we will see.
But in principle, anything that affects anything outside Scottish borders, is not for them to decide alone. I'm sure there may be outliers and exceptions.

So it is probably about time one thing was challenged, to see how robust the systems and regulations are.

Willfully and blatantly ignoring the reality of the UK Constitution right there! Even the Scottish Parliament website states that most aspects of the Equality Act is outwith their powers.

SNP push for IndyRef2 slapped down by Supreme Court as beyond their powers.

SNP Named Persons Scheme slapped down by Supreme Court as it was ruled illegal in the form the SNP wanted.

And now this piece of legislation.

It's clear the SNP exist to create confrontation with OUR central government and central Parliament in their push for IndyRef2. SNP clearly do not genuinely care about trans issues as it's a means to an end to create confrontation they hope will lead to IndyRef2.

It won't. The electorate do NOT like the SNP or Holyrood attempting to act illegally and beyond their prescribed powers as they voted for very LIMITED local government in 1998.

@maddy68 you should be ashamed of yourself for trying to portray this as an English v Scottish issue. It patently is NOT.

I'll say it again, Westminster is a BRITISH Parliament and the UK Government is a British Government.

Simple as that.

For the very hard of thinking.....🤔

On this issue, democracy IS working as set out in Constitutional Law. No amount of gnashing of teeth or stamping of feet by Scottish Nationalists will change that. By now, we all know how they will distort the actual Constitutional Law to suit themselves. They do a 🤥 often enough to spot them.

And Northern Ireland since the UK is made up of four regions.

Not three!

Also, Westminster can step in at any time on any issue they see fit because it is only Westminster that is the Supreme Legislator in the UK.

Holyrood, Stormont and Cardiff Bay were never understood by anyone to be of equal status to Westminster. After all, the UK is a unitary sovereign state which has the same position as Germany. I.E. their respective regions and states are not sovereign or, to quote Germany's highest court, "are not masters of the constitution".

SNP refuse to essentially accept this basis of international law in their attempted mission creep. 🤷‍♂️

There isn't an English government. There is a UK government that comprises MPs representing all parts of the UK.

Even Alba?

And Northern Ireland since the UK is made up of four regions.
Not three!

Northern Ireland is different which is why i left it out. Although in the case of abortion law, as i remember, they had to be forced to accept that Westminster could overrule them.

I think that devolved parliaments will only work if they are all on the same footing, so that NI isn't different. I also think that for the sake of understanding the separation of Westminster from Holyrood and the others, there really ought to be an English parliament too. To make it very clear that Westminster does not equal England. And I'd want it in Sheffield (or at least not London) because it's fairly central.

Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland Acts simply states the Westminster Parliament will not normally legislate on devolved issues.

There is NO barrier to them doing so.

To make it worse, most of the SNP MPs voted for Westminster to legislate for abortion in Northern Ireland not too long ago. This behaviour demonstrates the SNP knows its perfectly legal AND democratic for Westminster to step in on any issue in Stormont, Cardiff Bay and.....yes, Holyrood!

Yet they're trying to manipulate the Scottish electorate into thinking it's some kind of democratic outrage. It's not whatsoever!

SNP MP Lisa Cameron feared deselection as she voted against om the basis of hypocrisy and was trolled by SNP Cybernats.

SNP = "Do as I SAY and not as I DO!" 🤥

Thank god its blocked. If you have a penis regardless of gender or sex you don't belong on a female only space.

I think this will backfire on NS. The publicity this bill is generating just results in it being scrutinised more closely, and people are wondering why on earth a government would pass such a terribly drafted piece of legislation which is so unpopular with the public. It makes the Scottish government look incompetent. Which it is.

Well yes. NS seems to see this as a 'Gotcha' and a case for Indyref2 but presumably in an independent Scotland it would become law. Lots of women avoid political parties like Labour because of their support for self ID and TWAW so presumably a lot of women will avoid voting SNP because of the issue. Especially with so much light being shone on the batshittery of it all.

I wonder if NS is playing a really sharp game here? IIRC from other posters/threads the GRC wasn't in the SNP manifesto but they have gone into it at the behest of their coalition partner (Greens)?
So maybe NS really isn't behind it at all, and has done this and gone in all guns blazing because she knows it's not within Holyrood's remit and Westminster will get their way?
But the net result will be a win at Indyref2?
Is she being really really sly here?

Then you're in breach of the Belfast Agreement aka Good Friday Agreement which states that Northern Ireland is an INTEGRAL part of the UK.

In the context of devolution, Northern Ireland's Assembly is not especially different. Indeed, Northern Ireland was the first devolution experiment in the UK and for its first 50 years you could argue it was different.

Now? Not so as devolution is in two other parts with almost the same rules.

The other devolved administration in the UK is....London.

But every piece of devolved administration and legislation has ALWAYS been subject to Westminster. What's new is the SNP trying to take on Provisional Sinn Féin and Provisional IRA's arguments to make out Westminster is meddling. Even turning a General Election into a de facto referendum won't work - didn't actually work in 1918 and cannot work in 2023 in the context of international law.

In their desperation to get into the history books, the SNP has turned towards trying to provoke as many constitutional fights as possible with the UK Government. That shows a lack of confidence in their strategy.

If they had confidence and truly believed the demographics will deliver independence at some unknown point in the future.....they wouldn't be trying to cause fights with our Sovereign Government which islegally as wellas democratically in the right. 🤷‍♂️

Gender dysphoria is very complicated and affects many in different ways. Most posters on Mumsnet have concerns with the rights of women to have have safe places. The two things are separate.

Is she being really really sly here?

From the interviews she's done she seems to have completely thrown her weight behind it so I don't know how she could completely change her mind if she did win an IndyRef. I could even see it being used by people opposing an independent Scotland. I think she's playing quite a dangerous game .

There is no “pathological hatred” to use your words. And I would also argue there is no “transphobia”. That may be your own narrow perception of what a group of women who want to protect single-sex spaces believe, but I have news for you. You are wrong.

This is about safeguarding and the protection of long fought for sex-based rights. Protecting the rights of women and girls is not “pathological hatred” or “transphobia”.

I feel sorry for you that you can’t see that through your Transblinkers

Then you're in breach of the Belfast Agreement aka Good Friday Agreement which states that Northern Ireland is an INTEGRAL part of the UK.

at the risk of derailing: that's not the point i was trying to make. The situation of the NI assembly isn't (afaik) the same as the Scottish Assembly. And we're talking about Scotland.

I am well (and painfully aware) of what the Good Friday Agreement does.

1. you're trying to create an unnecessary distinction between the four different regions of the UK in the context of devolution. It doesn't fly since all parts are integral - it's literally not a United Kingdom without them all.

2. this thread isn't just about Scotland. It's also about the rest of the UK, hence the UK Government stepping in to block the Holyrood GRR bill.

And Holyrood is a Parliament. Not an Assembly . 🤷‍♂️

Nicolas ‘triumphant outrage’ face on tv last night suggests that she has achieved her aim. She has settled on the trans issue knowing its conflict with the outcome of the public consultation done by the WESC (despite the best efforts of Caroline Nokes to push through self id here).

I don’t believe she genuinely cares about the lives of trans people and they have just become handy leverage.

I’d be very interested to know the answer to Douglas Ross’s question about why it had to be pushed through in an unprecedented manner before Christmas. They argue that the legislation was years in the making but even so, the final stages were rushed through at a gallop. The significant number of amendments reflected the lack of consensus on the law - never a good thing.

They still haven’t defined basic but key terms either. I think at one point Shona Robison refused to answer a question for a key definition and essentially said that they courts would deal with it. How can the courts deal with it if the law isn’t defined?

I'm not going against the GFA, but we were talking about Scotland and I'm not going into the rest of the UK on this conversation about this one instance of the Westminster government challenging the Scottish parliament.

Good. This tail wagging the dog nonsense has to be stopped.

I think if you're going to call someone a bigot, which is arguably personal abuse and against site rules, you need to be able to back that up with some evidence.

What I have found chilling and depressing over the last few days is the disdain disgust and anger directed at women who dare to push back about men in women’s spaces. A red headed male mp and James o Brian both scoffing and incredulous about women voicing their fears about sharing enclosed spaces where they are undressing with men. No respect at all.

Acknowledging that women and girls would like some male-free spaces means acknowledging that males are potentially dangerous. A lot of men really don't like to hear this. I think it offends the beardy woke bros' socially liberal ideals to be classed like this.

Funnily enough, I don't get offended by having to be DBS checked for a volunteering commitment with vulnerable adults and children.