Gender recognition reform blocked

[hadntbeen]

Scottish Secretary Alister Jack has made an order under section 35 of the Scotland Act 1998, preventing the Scottish Parliament’s Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill from proceeding to Royal Assent.
Thank god 🙏🏻 I am an SNP supporter but this is one bill I was wholeheartedly against. I'm glad and relieved this decision was made.

It affects the other nations too so it's fair that Westminster can block it.

I think given the political cynicism of it, it's damn good thing that there is some mechanism to prevent the rest of the UK having its rights under the Equalties Act affected by the SNP.

That is actually what they have done. Ignore their little domestic dance for their supporters- the SNP were happy to affect the rights of women across the UK because of this bill.

I can understand the desire for independence- but this, this is not okay. Should it represent majority opinion in Scotland and it is vital then declare independence and do it then. Otherwise, unprintable thoughts about the SNP and their support.

As I understand it, the new birth certificate obtained through self ID would give legal proof of gender identity for the people who need it for various official purposes.

There is nothing to stop predatory / dangerous males from passing themselves off as females right now and going into female only spaces. Having been attacked and threatened by males 19 times by the age of 20, I’m certain that violent, aggressive men don’t need to pretend to be women to do so.

When the BBC broke this wonderful news-and it is wonderful news-they chose to illustrate it with a picture of young women holding aloft placards declaring Trans Rights.

I have been enjoying the memes on the royalty board and I only wish I knew how to create one.

If I knew how, it would involve pasting turkey heads on the bodies of these young women and, above them, a declaration saying, 'Voting for Christmas!'

"It's not anti-trans at all, it's about defending women's rights to safe spaces. I'm not anti-men -my best friend is a man- but there is a reason why they are not allowed into women's prisons, shelters, changing rooms and sports. Making self ID law, meant that any man can enter any women's space without even having to pretend to be trans"

Also agree with this

Thank goodness. I am so relieved that the government has acted to protect us. It would have been wrong not to invoke the provision in the Scotland Act for just this type of case. The Scottish government is always pushing to extend its devolved powers and has achieved some changes since the original devolution agreement but something had to be done to stop this particular madness affecting us in the rest of the UK.

And it's not the first time the government has intervened. Remember 2021 when Johnson was PM he successfully took a case to the Supreme Court over two Scottish bills that went beyond the legislative powers of the Scottish parliament. Must have been sweet considering the constant goading and insults she threw his way.

She is a power-mad fanatic still goading the UK government. Fanaticism can make one blinkered and stupid but I doubt that she actually believes the rubbish she comes out with to 'justify' ignoring the safeguarding of women and girls re single sex provision.
More likely deeply cynical and politically motivated.

I think sturgeon knew sunak would do this so the bill won't stand but dhe can blame Westminster and still get approval from the trans minority bullies

Thank god though

Sedatelpixie

I wish I could do they too. Brilliant idea

You need to reread what. FOJN wrote, because it wasn't that.

The point is that any male could misuse the act to access women and girls' safe spaces.

I think the point of the law was to reduce trauma to trans people as they’d have to be diagnosed with gender dysphasia first.
Effectively being diagnosed with a mental health condition before being allowed by medics to transition…
Gays were labelled mentally Ill in the DSM (psychiatric diagnostic medical manual) as mentally I’ll years ago until the law and medics overturned that.

Gender dysphoria… I meant

Yes. I agree with this. Extremely ironic that this is from the party whining about the EU trying to rule us.

@Abitofalark - I don't think you can give Boris Johnson the credit! Those cases had been listed and prepped a while before he came in. And of course he had his bottom handed to him by the Supreme Court over prerogation.

Anyway, Sturgeon is constantly looking for the button. She doesn't have powers to legislate, she knows that.

This situation will persist as long as the SNP dominate Holyrood. They like shouting people down. But whatever their perfect Scotland is, it's not anywhere I like the look of.

😂😂😂 are you sniffing glue

As I understand it, the new birth certificate obtained through self ID would give legal proof of gender identity for the people who need it for various official purposes

What is a 'gender identity' other than sex role stereotypes or feelings? Seriously?
Because unless they come up with an actual meaning for 'gender' and 'gender identity' that has any factual, coherent basis then how can, and why should it be legally protected?

If 'trans' is anything or everything anyone says on any given day then it's meaningless.
If it's a mental health condition of dysphoria, that can be professionally diagnosed, then why does it need legal protection?
No one should be allowed to alter their birth certificate because no one can change sex. 'Gender' isn't sex as we are told by TRA's so no reason to change their sex marker eh?

The issue with the current trans narrative is that they want to force everyone else to go along with the nonsense new religion and language.
Nothing to do with actual transexuals which is who a lot of people naively think this is about because they were already protected in law.

People who claim trans identities ALREADY have the same legal protections as everyone else plus the protection of gender reassignment.

There is nothing to stop predatory / dangerous males from passing themselves off as females right now and going into female only spaces. Having been attacked and threatened by males 19 times by the age of 20, I’m certain that violent, aggressive men don’t need to pretend to be women to do so

Rapist gonna rape so let's make all formally female only spaces mixed sex to accommodate males with poor mental health or a sexual paraphilia.
Who cares if it increases the risk to women and girls.

Thank fuck it's been blocked.

No one said that. This is a lie.

I think the point of the law was to reduce trauma to trans people as they’d have to be diagnosed with gender dysphasia first

So what makes them trans if not gender dysphoria? Should there be zero oversight for starting down a route of drugs and surgery, especially for sixteen year olds?

There is nothing to stop predatory / dangerous males from passing themselves off as females right now and going into female only spaces.

Of course there is - if your ID still reflects your sex observed at birth, you’re not going to find it easy to access a women’s prison, for example. Why make it easier for potential predators (not to be conflated with trans people in general - that’s obviously not what I’m saying) to access women’s safe spaces?

And as another poster said, please stop using widely-debunked suicide stats about trans people - it is extremely harmful.

absolutely no hate for trans people from me, but it would have set a very dangerous precedent if the Scottish parliament had been allowed to make legislation that so clearly impacts people in england wales and northern ireland too. this is a matter that can't be fully devolved, and is a correct use of the section 35 powers which appropriately foresaw that a situation could come about where proposed legislation in Scotland could over reach the borders of Scotland and have effects in the rest of the uk.

Regardless of anyone's views on trans issues, I think it sets a dangerous precedent that Westminster can overrule the devolved governments.

It's not a precedent it was built into the act that created the devolved governments. Some things are devolved and some not.

I think it's unfortunate that it has arrived with this bill, and it will be interesting to see how it affects people's attitudes to Scottish Independence. There will be those who don't care what the bill is about but "how dare England try to block our laws" about this, and others who are concerned about the content of the bill who may be either "how dare they" or "thank goodness"

The fact that we are 4 countries under the banner of one nation isn't even unique. The US and Germany are two examples of federated states where the states have certain devolved powers, but not over every aspect of life. And they are definitely not allowed to enact laws that encroach on the powers of the national government. I haven't really paid that much attention to the bill in Scotland, i do know that for various reasons it is heavily contested in some quarters and highly desired in others. Not necessarily because they are trans/anti-trans (or pro-/anti-woman - depending on your view) but because it is a test of how far the Scottish government can and will go to preserve/extend its autonomy.

From a Scottish citizen's pov, of course, the more autonomy their government has the better (if they support Independence) and the less their government has the better (if they don't). From the UK government pov? it's a hot mess giving some citizens different laws than others. How do we handle having a GRC issued in Scotland when we're in England or Wales? What if someone from England moves to Scotland, 3 months later gets a GRC and subsequently (as planned by them) moves back to England?

Marriages in one state are generally, but not always (as we have seen with same-sex marriage). Marriage is, like a GRC, in essence, a government licence to confirm an action an individual has taken. So how does it work in countries where a GRC isn't recognised at all? or has very different criteria? (i have no idea but could imagine that some states might say you only get a GRC post all surgery, for example, and I'd think that may be a problem for some)

Oh God, the old "trans people are evil people with nefarious purposes in mind" trope.

this is tripe. It is not Trans people that anyone is worried about.
It is that dangerous men can now stand up and say "I'm trans" and DO NOTHING AT ALL, not even shave, and enter, under the umbrella of "Trans" any space where women would normally be alone

Nobody is saying trans people will be doing that. As many trans women have pointed out, they have been using women's spaces for years and years and years. So what changed? Well, AGP's for one, using "trans" as a cover up. Trans women should be as up in arms about this as anyone else. Not because it is dangerous for them as such, but because their position is greatly weakened. And we have seen the result: instead of trans women being able to quietly go about their lives as they have been - the whole movement has been dragged into an MRA hate-fest.

I am just so relieved the UK government has the power to over rule such dangerous, mindbendingly stupid legislation. Could you imagine if Scotland were independent and legislation such as thing had passed?

if anyone has not seen it already, google Tom Swarbrick Maggie Chapman interview. It’s on YouTube. This is the calibre of ‘politician’ we have in Scotland. These are the sort of people legislating. It’s quite frankly terrifying.

And as someone with a connection to those drafting this legislation, they knew full well it was deeply flawed, told the government it was deeply flawed but it was pushed ahead anyway.

Not a Sunak fan, but at last he has got something right!

I’m glad blocked. However, it’s Sturgeon trying to stoke division and say that Scotland is oppressed. This was forced through Holyrood and it’s not about trans or women’s rights merely a tool for her.