Page 34 | To not feel safe in changing rooms anymore?

WandaWomblesaurus · 2023-01-15T08:34:59+00:00

https://nypost.com/2023/01/14/sighting-of-trans-womans-penis-in-ymca-locker-room-sparks-tears/ Another story about an inappropriate man in a woman's changing room - is this what we are going to see more of in the UK now too? Having been both flashed and sexually assaulted in a public place, this chills me to the bone. Men who get a thrill out of exposing themselves to women will use any opportunity to do so. To think that they won't abuse women's spaces is to be wilfully and dangerously naive. YANBU - Not unreasonable to think that flashing is flashing regardless of self ID and magical feelings. YABU - Be kind to men etc etc

Grumpybutfunny · 15/01/2023 20:45

MadameMaxGoesler · 15/01/2023 20:11

@Grumpybutfunny So give me an example of a single human who is not the product of the conjunction of class of humans that produces small gametes and the class of humans that produces large gametes and is not gestated and delivered by a member of the class of humans that produces large gametes.
It really doesn't get more sexually binary than that.

Intrasex Chimera's can and do have children 😉 infact some people have complete sets of both sex organs at birth.

MarieIVanArkleStinks · 15/01/2023 20:45

findmybalance · 15/01/2023 20:36

I didnt use that phrase, or anything like it.

I said that bringing in an issue we obviously all accept is abhorrent is unfair, because it is a discussion silencer, and i stand by that.

There is a difference between the posters even on this thread who have told their own stories of rape/fear and using it as a general discussion.

We are coming from the same point of view - rape shouldnt be used in a wider discussion. I stand by that.

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Semantics. You didn't use that phrase, but you also suggest that a very legitimate concern as to why women want same-sex spaces, to protect themselves from an increased risk of sexual harm inflicted at the hands of men, should be discounted from the discussion because it doesn't happen to support your views.

What that's tantamount to is the very definition of accusing women of weaponizing our trauma. And the one attempting to do the silencing, is you alone. I find your post utterly abhorrent.

Talking openly about rape is already difficult enough. The response to #MeToo shows there's a whole culture out there whose reflex response to doing so is to attempt to silence those women - because it makes the rest of society uncomfortable.

I was the victim. As were many other women who have bravely shared their experiences on this site.

You do not get to tell us whether, or how, we discuss our experiences of rape.

findmybalance · 15/01/2023 20:45

RinklyRomaine · 15/01/2023 20:43

We shouldn't be allowed to mention rape in a discussion about allowing the sex class which commits all rape into spaces where the sex class who are overwhelmingly the victims of male rape are undressed and vulnerable? Because it shuts down discussion? What you mean is it's so clearly the reason we are arguing for safeguarding that no other argument has any moral merit whatsoever so you best shut it down. This isn't coming across as the empathetic compassion you think it is.

No, that's disingenuous.

My original point on this came where I was accused of advocating rape because I disagreed with certain transphobic sentiments. My answer was that immediately making that connection is unfair.

You are again missing the point that I agree with single sex spaces.

BellePeppa · 15/01/2023 20:46

whatkatydid2013 · 15/01/2023 20:01

I’ve never understood what this actually means. What even is a woman in the context that trans women are women? If what makes you a woman isn’t your sex what is it. It feels like whenever I read any explanation of it it has all these references to stupid stereotypes of the sort I’d hope we would be moving away from by now (I always knew I was a woman because I loved barbies and wanted to be nurturing and felt more comfortable in a dress etc as if any of that should be of any importance)

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That’s exactly what it is - stereotypes. I’m all for free expression, I think men and women should be able to dress however they want (men can wear dresses if they want etc), behave in non-stereotype ways and not be prejudiced or discriminated because of it BUT I do not believe that they can then declare themselves the opposite sex as if it’s fact because they have non stereotype behaviours.

VinoDino · 15/01/2023 20:46

Yes. Although on the plus side I did get to sign the petition that was posted, so good information was shared.

Brilliant 👏

findmybalance · 15/01/2023 20:47

MarieIVanArkleStinks · 15/01/2023 20:45

Semantics. You didn't use that phrase, but you also suggest that a very legitimate concern as to why women want same-sex spaces, to protect themselves from an increased risk of sexual harm inflicted at the hands of men, should be discounted from the discussion because it doesn't happen to support your views.

What that's tantamount to is the very definition of accusing women of weaponizing our trauma. And the one attempting to do the silencing, is you alone. I find your post utterly abhorrent.

Talking openly about rape is already difficult enough. The response to #MeToo shows there's a whole culture out there whose reflex response to doing so is to attempt to silence those women - because it makes the rest of society uncomfortable.

I was the victim. As were many other women who have bravely shared their experiences on this site.

You do not get to tell us whether, or how, we discuss our experiences of rape.

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My views support single sex spaces, so Im not entirely sure where you are going with that.

I have no issue with anyone talking openly about rape, and to accuse me otherwise is more abhorrent than my post.

The original poster suggested that because I think we need to be careful in our trans language that I must advocate rape which is the abhorrent post. It was that element I objected to.

you'd know that if you'd not dived straight in to try and attack me to the point of no return.

Britinme · 15/01/2023 20:47

Janesy123 · 15/01/2023 20:00

I don’t think a trans person would put themselves through the kind of social, medical, financial and personal hell it takes to transition simply so they can perve at cis women in changing rooms. I think these sort of press articles have become a trope for inciting hate. Please don’t buy into them.

Please explain to me how to distinguish a male-bodied person with a penis who has put themselves through transition from one who is simply pretending to be a person going through transition who has adopted that pretence simply in order to perve at/have access to women in single-sex spaces.

OneTC · 15/01/2023 20:48

No, that's disingenuous

I don't think this word means what you think it means.

Women in fear of being raped or assaulted told to exclude those 2 points from the discussion about being raped or assaulted. you're having a laugh

RinklyRomaine · 15/01/2023 20:49

I'm not. You've literally just said we shouldn't use rape in these discussions and that a blanket no is not right because 'it's not black and white'. Your posts. Trying to silence raped women making a valid point. You keep calling everyone else disingenuous while shifting positions every other post. Making my point well enough without my input, thank you.

findmybalance · 15/01/2023 20:49

AllThingsServeTheBeam · 15/01/2023 20:44

No, the posts you were highlighting were stating fact. They were not transphobic. Try again

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So is the fact that some people use the word cisgender.

Again, it appears that facts can only be used and described as inoffensive when it suits your narrative.

findmybalance · 15/01/2023 20:50

OneTC · 15/01/2023 20:48

No, that's disingenuous

I don't think this word means what you think it means.

Women in fear of being raped or assaulted told to exclude those 2 points from the discussion about being raped or assaulted. you're having a laugh

Didnt say anything like that.

AllThingsServeTheBeam · 15/01/2023 20:50

findmybalance · 15/01/2023 20:49

So is the fact that some people use the word cisgender.

Again, it appears that facts can only be used and described as inoffensive when it suits your narrative.

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And there you go again

Cisgender is a slur.

Noonesperfect · 15/01/2023 20:51

rumporolypolyofthebailey · 15/01/2023 19:12

The threat and fear of sexual crime is something I believe most women live with and have strategies for. Mostly born of personal experience. So we are careful with who and how we interact, where we walk at night etc etc.

Recently using a gender neutral loo I felt vulnerable. I felt that I was putting myself at risk. Just that, no hate for trans-people just that my life now feels more risky. How is that fair? I am guessing that a trans women would feel vulnerable like I did in a mens loo. Making women feel like that is not the answer to this though.

Totally agree ☝️.

IAmWomanHearMeRoar1 · 15/01/2023 20:51

findmybalance · 15/01/2023 20:41

@FlirtsWithRhinos TRA is an offensive term.

I am not, nor are others with these views, TRAs.

Your point was that if trans had said and done a b and c then we would have done a b and c is fair enough, yet when we suggest that women could be less offensive and more understanding in their views towards trans people, we are accused of trying to make them "be kind".

This argument becomes circular because of the total lack of middle ground, created by both sides.

I do agree with single sex spaces. all i have actually said is that I think some of the way trans peopl and men are referred to on this thread is offensive, and that I think the changing rooms debate is wider than a "no", and apparently that's so offensive I deserved several attacks. That is indicative of the wider problem.

What do you think 'TRA' means? It stands for Trans Rights Activists. And that is what TRAs call themselves. They themselves, use the acronym TRA. So you are now telling TRAs that they are wrong for calling themselves TRAs.

OneTC · 15/01/2023 20:51

You need to read back the collapsed comments in your post at 20.47

You could have written the book on disingenuity

NeighbourhoodWatchPotholeDivision · 15/01/2023 20:52

It means you don't agree with me. It means your claims that you do agree are meaningless platitudes.

You've found time to imply women are brainwashed into being wary of sexual abuse. You've found time to excuse a man who barged in past a drawn curtain where a woman was undressing. You've found time to attempt to discredit women as mindlessly man-hating and as having no empathy for 50% of the planet.

If you agreed with me, your actions would be very different.

findmybalance · 15/01/2023 20:52

RinklyRomaine · 15/01/2023 20:49

I'm not. You've literally just said we shouldn't use rape in these discussions and that a blanket no is not right because 'it's not black and white'. Your posts. Trying to silence raped women making a valid point. You keep calling everyone else disingenuous while shifting positions every other post. Making my point well enough without my input, thank you.

I haven't shifted position once.

I said it's not as simple as a "no", in the real world, I didn't say I didn't support it. My whole thing has been about the language, stemming from the OP talking about magical feelings and being kind to men.

I haven't tried to silence any raped women, and no amount of pack mentality will make that true.

You can make your point all you like, doesn't make it true. I said pages ago I think everyone is entitled to their views but as usual on these boards, everyone is except those who don't fall into line.

ScrollingLeaves · 15/01/2023 20:52

To sign the petition to update the Equality Act to make clear that sex means biological sex, not sex as created by a Gender Recognition Certificate,

⬇️
petition.parliament.uk/petitions/623243

findmybalance · 15/01/2023 20:52

IAmWomanHearMeRoar1 · 15/01/2023 20:51

What do you think 'TRA' means? It stands for Trans Rights Activists. And that is what TRAs call themselves. They themselves, use the acronym TRA. So you are now telling TRAs that they are wrong for calling themselves TRAs.

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Yes, they do, but you know as well as I do that it's a negative term used on here, and that posters are regularly called TRA's.

Baldieheid · 15/01/2023 20:53

findmybalance · 15/01/2023 20:47

My views support single sex spaces, so Im not entirely sure where you are going with that.

I have no issue with anyone talking openly about rape, and to accuse me otherwise is more abhorrent than my post.

The original poster suggested that because I think we need to be careful in our trans language that I must advocate rape which is the abhorrent post. It was that element I objected to.

you'd know that if you'd not dived straight in to try and attack me to the point of no return.

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I'm curious so please indulge me.

Your views mean you agree with the need for single sex spaces.

Do you mean single SEX ie tw should not use female spaces, TM should not use male spaces?

Sex, as in biological sex, being the boundary here?

In changing rooms, prisons, toilet facilities, hospitals,etc. SEX is the line.

Yes?

findmybalance · 15/01/2023 20:54

AllThingsServeTheBeam · 15/01/2023 20:50

And there you go again

Cisgender is a slur.

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And I support your right to find it so, yet it's okay to mock transphobia. Wonder why.

findmybalance · 15/01/2023 20:55

Baldieheid · 15/01/2023 20:53

I'm curious so please indulge me.

Your views mean you agree with the need for single sex spaces.

Do you mean single SEX ie tw should not use female spaces, TM should not use male spaces?

Sex, as in biological sex, being the boundary here?

In changing rooms, prisons, toilet facilities, hospitals,etc. SEX is the line.

Yes?

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Yes.

silverclock222 · 15/01/2023 20:56

No self-respecting male will go into a mixed changing room. Any male who does is quite honestly a weirdo. I only order online now (which I hate).

RinklyRomaine · 15/01/2023 20:57

If you agree with single sex spaces, it is as simple as NO, every time. If rape shouldn't be used because it is so abhorrent is stops debate, that is silencing raped women.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 15/01/2023 20:58

I would like to think that's not all you took from my post.

What else was there? You just confirmed that you don't understand safeguarding, or risk analysis and mitigation.