To not feel safe in changing rooms anymore?

[WandaWomblesaurus]

nypost.com/2023/01/14/sighting-of-trans-womans-penis-in-ymca-locker-room-sparks-tears/

Another story about an inappropriate man in a woman's changing room - is this what we are going to see more of in the UK now too? Having been both flashed and sexually assaulted in a public place, this chills me to the bone. Men who get a thrill out of exposing themselves to women will use any opportunity to do so. To think that they won't abuse women's spaces is to be wilfully and dangerously naive.

YANBU - Not unreasonable to think that flashing is flashing regardless of self ID and magical feelings.

YABU - Be kind to men etc etc

@findmybalance

According to census figures, 1 in every 585 MTF trans people are likely to be in prison for sex offences, compared to 1 in 2500 men and 1 in over 200k women.

Exactly why should this group of males be given access to women only spaces?

Yes you did say those things, don't backtrack and lie.

Feelings aren't the only reason we have single sex spaces. Risk, safeguarding and biological reality, IS.

This. It's really not that difficult to understand (though it appears to be for one poster).

The world has gone mad.

Women was NO penises in our private spaces.

How much clearer do we need need to make this??? It's very rucking simple..!

Back to my original point. Do you know why? Opportunity. It's about opportunity. I've risk assessed the men in my house as best I can. Those I cannot risk assess I exclude while I'm vulnerable. Because they are responsible for 98% of sexual assaults.

Same old pathetic deflection. Still ignoring the fact that we don't just want to avoid rape. Dignity, privacy, freedom from the male gaze. They all matter.

Yes, this. The answer isn't to remove biological women's rights to changing rooms or toilets, the answer is to provide options for everyone. That would be the truly fair way. So a mixed changing room for those who don't feel safe in the men's room and can't use the women's room because they are not biological women, plus a biological-women only, and a biological-men only.

Is there an argument against this? I can't see how anyone could argue that that wouldn't be fair... I want transgender people to feel safe. But their safety cannot be at the cost of others' safety, especially women who are still fighting for safety themselves in so many ways.

Where I live, the petrol stations have three types of toilets - children, men and women. Most people would argue that having three types of toilets is too complicated etc, but clearly it's doable where there's a will. Same with changing rooms and offering mixed rooms, along with women's and men's.

Are you able to provide statistics of how many young women were raped (not saw a penis in a shower or through a door)

You do realise indecent exposure and voyeurism are not victimless crimes? Why do you think surprise penises or ogling males are acceptable in female spaces?

In the 70s, my mother was raped by a man a few years before she met my dad. It destroyed her. My dad is great but my mother has been very easily intimidated by men ever since, as a result.

Now in her 70s, she is absolutely horrified at the thought of a biological male in the changing room. She said she might just stop shopping if this is how things are going.

You can call me a transphobe every day of the week. Its absolutely disgraceful giving biological males women's protected spaces and I don't care how anyone tries to silence me for saying so. Call me a transphobe. I literally don't care.

Exactly, figures speak for themselves but apparently women are still meant to 'be kind' and put themselves at risk. I don't give a fuck about any man's feelings, even ones that 'think' they're a woman.

Then we agee

But I do disagree about mass outcry resulting in transphobia over a teenage girl seeing a man in her changing room.

I dont believe teaching young women to be terrified of men is right, and I'm not convinced it helps. A great example upthresd where a man walked into the wrong changing room. For all we know he could have been someones husband, dad, grandad , whatever, taking someone another outfit which is common practice. But no he must be a rapist.

We need to keep women safe absolutely byt we are doing ourselves no favours painting ourselves as little princesses who are terrified at the thought of seeing a man. How on earth can we expect women to accurately assess danger if we behave like that?

Ian Huntley was used as am example earlier on. As with many of his ilk, his victims were attracted by a woman.

In all seriousness, ar what risk is a teenage girl in a changing room full of.womem to a lone passing man? genuinely?

And we don't care about men's feelings.

We only care about womens feelings because they have been so down drodden in history. We need to protect women and girls. I don't give a shit about a born man who thinks he is a woman in his head which is complete madness.

Then you're transphobic. IRS as simple as that.

That is transphobic.

In the 70s, my mother was raped by a man a few years before she met my dad. It destroyed her. My dad is great but my mother has been very easily intimidated by men ever since, as a result.

Now in her 70s, she is absolutely horrified at the thought of a biological male in the changing room. She said she might just stop shopping if this is how things are going.

You can call me a transphobe every day of the week. Its absolutely disgraceful giving biological males women's protected spaces and I don't care how anyone tries to silence me for saying so. Call me a transphobe. I literally don't care.

your poor mum

I think the tide is turning. There are only so many times they can trot out such a lame, pointless insult and be taken seriously.

Don't let this thread get derailed. There are posters on mumsnet who's sole purpose is to find a thread they can argue on and post nasty derogatory comments.

No they are not 'transphobic'. You are lying. It's as simple as that.

Then you're transphobic.

Oh well, etc etc.

I'm sorry that happened to your mother. I dont think that makes you transphobic at all.

That wouldn't work. The reason trans women want to use female only facilities is so that they feel like women. Not because of safety. Therefore I doubt any option that barred them from somewhere women can access would be acceptable. Anyway a mixed area is no safer than a men only area, surely. It would have to be a trans only area which would be discrimination

I think males are also entitled to same sex spaces, as a male poster above me stated he preferred. I can't be the only person who's read complaints from gay males about female transpeople attending clubs and saunas meant for gay males, and how uncomfortable it made them. Not afraid, mind. Just uncomfortable. The stories are out there.

Are these gay males entitled to have their own spaces, free from females (irrespective of how they identify)?

If not, why not? Explain please.

If yes, why is this any different to women being entitled to their own spaces, free from males (irrespective of how they identify)?

You are being absolutely ridiculous and are embarrassing yourself. Protecting women and girls is NOT 'transphobic'.

For the third time:

Being childish and rude doesnt make your position any stronger.

If prioritising women's safety and dignity over men's feelings makes me transphobic, then I'll own that with pride. Cheers