To not feel safe in changing rooms anymore?

[WandaWomblesaurus]

nypost.com/2023/01/14/sighting-of-trans-womans-penis-in-ymca-locker-room-sparks-tears/

Another story about an inappropriate man in a woman's changing room - is this what we are going to see more of in the UK now too? Having been both flashed and sexually assaulted in a public place, this chills me to the bone. Men who get a thrill out of exposing themselves to women will use any opportunity to do so. To think that they won't abuse women's spaces is to be wilfully and dangerously naive.

YANBU - Not unreasonable to think that flashing is flashing regardless of self ID and magical feelings.

YABU - Be kind to men etc etc

Bingo! Ageism and sexism all in one tweet.

Men really don't like women who say NO to men.

Ageist and sexist in one short sentence. Well done!

Women. We are women. Discussing women's rights to single sex spaces.

And this is the crux of the matter which for some reason so many people seem to find really difficult to understand.

Who is a genuine trans-identified man and who is a perverted criminal man taking advantage of society allowing 'self-ID' in female spaces?

How do we tell the difference between those 2 people?

Stonewall, Mermaids and TRAs tell us that people do not have to engage in any kind of hormonal or surgical treatment to be Trans. That they don't need to 'present as the gender they identify as', which all basically boils down to any man, wearing any clothes, with any hairstyle and facial hair, and any name can say the magic words 'I identify as a woman' and be allowed to use female changing rooms, take part in female grassroots sports where hormone levels aren't checked or mandated, be admitted to female hospital wards, request and potentially be allowed transfer to female prisons (to name just a few examples).

Now these men who have previously had to go through teacher or nursing training, or take part in scouting, volunteering........in order to gain access to females when they are vulnerable can just say the magic words. Does anyone really believe that those men wouldn't take advantage of that?

And to the TWAW devotees, I assume that means you would be 100% fine with a female family member being locked in a cell with a male bodied but female identifying rapist who has retained their penis?

"
the woke brigade

Oh goodness.

Same same, and I don’t doubt the anti trans crowd have driven a lot of traffic away from
the platform. I don’t think it’s a coincidence that MN have increased their social media presence of late and have allowed some very obvious troll threads to stand. They need the traffic.

Not a tweet but this is the kind of anti women nonsense you see on twitter!

But they wouldn’t BE in “women’s spaces” would they? They’d be in “spaces” designed for people to get changed and to have a shit in, behind closed doors. As many school, new buildings, pubs, clothing shops, spas already do, with no additional problems. As I said, disabled people have always done this, and it seems to work just fine.

There are 'additional problems'. Read the thread. And disabled areas are usually singular locked spaces designated for one person, not the same 🙄

I wonder- why do transwomen not want to get changed in the male changing rooms? Is it because they feel unsafe? And if so - who is it that makes them feel unsafe?

Would it be...men?

If we assume that is the case, then shouldn't we be telling them that their fears are unfounded, because most men wouldn't attack them? And that they shouldn't be tarring all men with the same brush?

It seems to me that what is needed here is NOT lockable doors or for women to give up their safe spaces, but instead to DEMAND that men should be more inclusive and less threatening generally. MEN should be told that they must alter their behaviour.

Let's stop demanding that women accommodate men and their foibles/prejudices.

Make all men accountable.

@Quinoawoman
I'm not going to quote all your post, but when you say "Others sadly cannot, and feel the need to say that trans women can never be women, etc."
The thing is, they CAN'T ever be women, and it needs saying, loudly and repeatedly, especially in schools. If a person is born with a penis then biology says that no matter how they dress, what they have done surgically, how they think and perhaps most importantly, what they want OTHER people to think, it simply cannot change the fact that they are still men. It's not being transphobic to point that out. It's being scientifically factual.

I am happy for people to dress and think how they wish. To be who they want to be. It is none of my business. If they are happy so am I. What I take issue with, is people (male or female) that think that others should have to put up and shut up because they feel they are special and deserve being treated differently, simply "BECAUSE". If transwomen are given the right to go into biologically female spaces then what's to stop ALL men being allowed in? A penis is a penis is a penis, irrespective of what thoughts are swishing around in someone's head.

Tell me why a Muslim woman or a victim of sexual abuse should have to undress in front of a penis? (Or any woman who just simply doesn't want to for that matter!?). Why are transwomen's "rights" more important than biological women's "rights"?

I personally think the answer is to have changing rooms labelled "Born with a Penis" and "Not born with a Penis".

And I understand that some transwomen feel vulnerable and unsafe in male changing rooms. I'm so sorry about that, and it's clearly not right. But why is it women should possibly made to feel vulnerable and unsafe instead? That is just WRONG.

So you want gender neutral spaces where men have access to vulnerable women, having been victim of a sex crime in one of these gender neutral spaces, support these and you support access to vulnerable women by predatory males, these spaces and their supporters are purposefully or inadvertently enabling sex crimes

Look, if you're pro self-identification, you believe that men's desires are more important than women's rights, safety, security. Own that.

What anti trans crowd?

Again, you are talking about women discussing women's rights and abusive men. YOU are the one making it about trans people. OP didn't.

The problem with that part of your comment is saying that transpeople are more vulnerable than women for being who they are. Actually it's the other way around. Women are under far more threat.

I had two lads of about 17/18 in a changing room trying on skirts and laughing so much whilst putting on camp voices. It seemed to be a huge piss take which they thought was hilarious.

This is the thing for me, too. Why do they feel the need to flaunt it?! Just use a cubicle, FFS.

Personally, I would feel safer around trans women who still have penises than male-presenting penis owners, being aware that those who suffer abuse are at the hands of men are way less likely to perpetrate it against others. I understand from some of the articles linked here that there are exceptions, but as someone else has pointed out, we have very little hard data about how common this actually is.

We have 30 years of Swedish research which concluded that trans biological males offend at the same rate as other biological males.

journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0016885

YANBU. I don't want men in any space which should be women-only, whether that be toilets, changing rooms, locker rooms etc., or hospital wards, prisons etc.

We have the right to safety, privacy and dignity, and allowing men in there is taking away those rights. It means that women won't be able to use those spaces at all.

If men want to campaign for unisex spaces in addition to male/female segregated spaces then I support that.

Recent research shows they commit sex offences at a far higher rate. There’s a thread running on the feminism board if anyone is interested.

Personally, I would feel safer around trans women who still have penises than male-presenting penis owners, being aware that those who suffer abuse are at the hands of men are way less likely to perpetrate it against others.

This is based on a number of false premises.

😴

🤣🤣🤣 what anti trans crowd?! Really? A blind man running for the bus could see the transphobia on this site

We have 30 years of Swedish research which concluded that trans biological males offend at the same rate as other biological males.

We also know from the recent census information that trans-identified males are five times more likely than non-trans males to be sex offenders.

@BillyNotQuiteNoMates " As I said, disabled people have always done this, and it seems to work just fine. "

Disabled people have not always done that, they had to fight for disabled toilets/other rights for donkeys years.
They are set aside because disabled people often need space for wheelchairs, lower sinks/handrails etc., that there is no room for in an ordinary sized toilet cubicle and if you notice, there is often only one disabled toilet in a building as opposed to ordinary toilet facilities for the able bodied. Not only that but anyone else waiting to use a disabled toilet is expected to wait outside in full public view, so hopefully they would be less inclined to flash at/attack the disabled person using the toilet!
Again, it is not the job of disabled people to have to move over to protect men btw!