To have cried over DS behaviour?

[BargainBlunt]

DS is 3.5.

Nursery have called in the local authority to provide advice/support on DS. They aren't saying much more, just that there are concerns. I have spoken to GP who is v. dismissive, I completed forms but have since been told by HV I was given out of date forms by GP so now have to wait for them to have rejected and then can 'do other forms but little chance of being seen for 2 years or so", HV tells me not to bother as "it's not autism but anxiety" due to 'trauma' (she thinks covid plus moving house means trauma is causing the behavioural issues). Family and DH tell me there is nothing going on...just need to be firmer, DS takes the piss out of me cos he can etc.

Anyway, just tried to take DS for a haircut. A special kids place with cars. Spent all week talking about it, showing him videos, reading books. He was excited about going this morning. I even booked a double appointment to allow for all the tears and refusal.

DS tried to wreck the place. He licked the walls. He tried to lick the receptionist's face in a kind of mania. He climbed on top of strangers. He ran out into the street and road numerous times. He lay down in the street. Wouldn't let me near him. The hairdresser tried to corner him at one point and he screamed like a wild animal. We gave up after 40 mins. He then tried to run into random houses on the way home. Hid in a bush.

I cried in the car and called DH. DH told me I was making it all a bigger deal than it needed to be

"Stop over thinking everything"

I honestly feel like I'm gaslit. We keep having episodes like that and DH, GP, MiL, HV keep telling me it's just 'some kids'. Nursery staff seem to think something going on for DS too but everyone close to me thinks I'm being dramatic.

DH said me crying was making it all worse.

DS apologised in the car. Said he was scared. Kept saying "hair cup ouchy" and "sorry mummy". Which did make me feel awful. Should I not let him see me upset?

Hairdresser at one point said "poor boy has got his hair all in his eyes. you need to get that sorted mum" while I was trying to pin him down so he wouldn't tear the posters off the wall.

I mean....it's upsetting isn't it? I feel like everyone is saying basically this is normal mum stuff and I'm just not coping.

Am I being OTT? Do I just need to get my shit together? Is parenting a 3 year old boy really just this hard? I am finding it really hard to not tearful and DH is getting frustrated with me.

Really? I was taught how to pin them for a nappy change (under one leg!) when they wouldn't stay still, at mommy and me class by a qualified social worker.

A bit younger and a different context to be sure but I don't think pinning your young child down is necessarily 'abuse'.

@BargainBlunt if you call your GP surgery there may be a practitioner you can speak to. I was at my wits end with no help from school and no t being able to compare with DD's peers. What got me on the track to support was the local nurse practitioner who immediately gave us a referral for assessment. Then one thing led to another (long journey) to understanding my DD.

Reins!!!

Surely that depends how it’s done- as OP describes herself as going mad she’s probably not talking about how to hold a wriggly baby to change a nappy.

This is ridiculous, even arguing about the idea that it’s ok to physically control a 3 year old in this instance is nonsense. Of course it’s not abuse.

I should add when he’s getting dangerously out of control

My child at 2/3 suffered bad with anxiety, this was due to issues relating to contact with her biological father. I sympathise it was horrendous. If it is trauma/anxiety, I can tell you now it will get better. My little girl just needed time, age helped, school helped, and specialist support helped also.

Your husband is being and unsupportive dick to be blunt. He’s probably making it worse, not you.

Please don’t get angry with your son he doesn’t know how to regulate his emotions and that’s why it comes out in such a way.

Hi op, this sound exactly like my autistic PDA son, right down to the licking thing and climbing on strangers. Also the speech, my son was still not speaking in sentences at that age.

Could you afford a private asd assessment? My family were exactly the same, saying there is nothing wrong with him, saying I was tired/stressed and exaggerating etc, only nursery saw what I saw. I put my foot down in the end and took him to some asd specialists when he was nearly 4 and they recognised the asd immediately and did an excellent assessment.

Having the diagnosis and knowing what I’m dealing with has made a massive difference.

This does sound very challenging and not like average 3 year old.behaviour.

My son is 8 now and under assessment for autism. 3 was every difficult age for us and in hindsight the stage at which this first really became apparent. Simple tasks like the hairdresser, supermarket or play dates were really difficult, and it did feel like I was just a shit mum unable to parent my child.

Trust your gut, parenting is hard but it's not.meant to be this hard. Keep pushing with the GP and ask for a meeting with nursery to better understand their concerns. Look into strategies for dealing with SEN, such as ADHD and autism and see if any would help you and your son. Ask to work with nursery to develop some strategies that can be used at home and nursery to support his behaviour and emotional regulation. Seek out support locally, I've been blown away by how much there is round here that we never knew about. Most importantly be kind to yourself.You are doing the best possible for your son, asking for advice and support is a important step in getting the help you both need xxx

If nursery think there’s an issue, they can support you in getting an EHCP. It sounds like your son would benefit from some extra help and interventions, especially if he’s starting school in September. You can apply for an EHCP yourself, but expect to be turned down initially, over 90% of applications are! Keep reapplying, and go to tribunal if needed, they rely on people giving up, don’t be that person! Chase everyone, constantly, don’t take no for an answer! For yourself try and find a local parents support group, in my experience that’s where you’ll find the most support and knowledge. Ps. It’s very common for partners and family to be in denial unfortunately, you may have to do this alone…you can do this! 💪🏻💪🏻

@BargainBlunt I hope today is a better day for you all.

@Shuttlesandspinners does your GP/school/local authority etc accept the private diagnosis? Has it helped you get an EHCP? I will save the money for it but I want to make sure it will actually be recognised by the "system". Does that make sense? Thank you for being so helpful

In terms of the pinning down. I'll describe the incident in detail because I feel I don't know right from wrong right now and would like your views.

DH was obviously pissed off at DS when we got home from the hairdressers. Lots of "you made mummy sad today"
DS started playing up. Took the peanut butter from the cupboard and DH tried to get it back. DS threw on the floor and it smashed.
DH grabbed DS and took DS into another room and said "stay out there for 2 mins" and slammed door.
DS started going crazy "mummy I want mummy" and then started pushing things over (chairs etc, throwing toys)
DH went into the room "what have you done?" Shouting etc
DS kept running round the room throwing stuff and screaming for me
DH grabbed DS and held him tightly to him kind of pinning him to the sofa for maybe 2 or 3 mins. This is what I saw when I went in. I was still sat next door.
I know there is nothing worse for DS than losing that physical control. I never force anything (getting in bath, getting dressed)
I think "this can't be ok" and go in and tell DH to let's go of DS. DH looks ashamed.
DS jumps into my arms. Stops crying instantly. I give him lots of kisses and he picks up all the stuff without me even asking
He then says "daddy so angry. Sorry dropping pea butter daddy. No be sad daddy"

Honestly he is a such a wonderful boy. I wish we were doing a better job.

Thank you @Pickpocket HV tells me EHCP out of question for us but I'll keep trying. HV saw DS a year ago and he tried to bite her. But last time a couple of months ago DS was super calm, kept cuddling her, showing her his toys, speaking a lot more (his speech varies a lot depending on his emotional state). And she was like "you've done an amazing job. You should see some of the kids I see. Your boy doesn't have high needs. I think it may just be anxiety"

I now think your husband is not just a failure, he’s a volatile and abusive cunt.

I dont think your DH had an ideal response, but I can see how it escalated to that. I would say that’s part of parenting generally - not every reaction is one to be proud of.

I remember the feelings you are having and the total overwhelm so well. It is so hard when it seems that you are the only one seeing how extreme the situation is and having other negate your efforts. But know that you are doing the best you can and never stop fighting for help.

As others have said it is a positive that nursery are seeking support- it shows that they too are seeing the challenges. Getting help will make a huge difference.

One thing I did which made the GP take me more seriously was video some of the very extreme behaviours (for example- licking walls is not down to "naughtiness" or poor parenting) and show it to them. That them led to a paediatric referral which then led to diagnosis.

But it all takes time and in the mean time you are still having to deal with the day to day. The National Autistic Society will provide you with support even if not diagnosed with autism, but the child has issues that mean they may be diagnosed. There web site is a good place to start, and have a confidential help line manned by parents where you can get specific advice from parents and educational experts... you leave your questions with them and they call back with answers later. They run courses on sensory issues, understanding behaviours, adapting parenting styles to the needs etc.

I also attended a challenging behaviour course with them and they taught things like how to hug properly in a meltdown to keep child and self safe.

If your GP/nursery can refer you to OT for help with sensory issues, they will make a programme which may help hugely reduce his meltdowns.

A book on sensory issues that may help understanding is the "out of Sync child".

Contact a family offer a pairing up service with others in similar circumstances and talking to others going through the same thing is a huge help to know you are not alone and others are in the same position.

As for the unsupportive and undermining husband, I'm afraid my solution to that was I ended up LTB as my own and children's well being had to come first- hope you find another way around that one!

You need to ask your husband to leave. What a prick. I'd of wiped the floor with him.

I have a grandson who’s 3 and a half ánd can be quite a handfull sometimes, but not like your little boy. You need help here. His behaviour is way off and his speaking skills are insufficient. Don’t try this on your own OP, ask your GP for a referral to a child therapist. Big hug ❤️‍🩹

First of all I just wanted to say, you are not doing anything wrong or overreacting! To get upset when someone you love is going through such a traumatic episode is completely reasonable! I’m so sorry for everything you’re going through and how hard it is to get the support you all need.

just wondering about an alternative strategy? Could you begin going down a speech and language path and then a potential side step into other departments? From what you’ve said it wouldn’t be a crazy thing to do (not that his speech or understanding sounds like it’s a million miles off)

I know all departments have waiting lists etc but there are preliminary groups that they might suggest you attend via your local Children’s Centre. Which wouldn’t involve forms, complicated/incorrect or otherwise!

our children’s centre have been brilliant with helping us get support for our sons language delay. There have been children at some of the sessions that clearly speech isn’t their primary issue and this is then followed up and the correct path for that child is found.

might be a totally useless suggestion just something that came to mind!

also, I think your husband would benefit from taking him to them, with or without you too. He needs support as well as you and your son, and while I REALLY understand the feeling of “oh just fuck off then” when they seem to make things worse, that’s a dangerous way to go as nothing can move on or get better for your relationships.

sending you all the love in the world OP and I really hope things start to move positively for you all very very soon xxx

It sounds really hard going what you’re going through.

I used to work with 2-3 yo’s in a local playgroup and some children do develop at different stages and some children are a lot more full on than others. I used to find the boys were a lot more well boisterous than the girls.

Some children are just slower at developing and one day it just clicks into place, including behaviour and speech.

That being said, if the nursery is concerned then you should fight for an assessment for him as so many children go through into adulthood without proper diagnoses which then prevents them from receiving the help and support needed also resulting in underachieving in school and work.

Goodluck with it all.

I agree with this.

Depending on how he was reacting, could DH have been doing that to keep him safe? DH pinning him on the sofa was not the best way though

I’d be concerned about your DS throwing furniture when he has a meltdown. Hopefully you can get help with that asap because he’ll only get stronger and bigger.

Definitely get an assessment.
only a professional can tell you whether there’s something going on. Gp/hv/nursery are not qualified to suggest anything, only refer you on.
one of my kids was similar aged 3. Very delayed everything. But is 100% neurotypical. Another one of my kids was always miles ahead of her peers, impeccably behaved kid etc, and she’s autistic.

OP, that sounds so hard for you all. Here's my thoughts on that incident from someone who's DS can also have challenging behaviour.
Your DH saying to your DS that he made you sad at the hairdressers triggered a guilt reaction in DS. But, and this is the main thing, your DS' reaction to his emotion was not typical, I.e. saying sorry and looking sorry. Your DS took his uncomfortable feeling and became challenging, which is exactly what my DS used to do, I think because he felt bad about himself so started melting down. So when our kids react in non typical ways to emotions, it can be triggering for parents. But your DH's reaction just made it worse because it made your DS feel even more out of control. Which led to more challenging behaviour. Which led to DH getting more cross. Vicious cycle.
Here's what I think could help. Firstly, you both have to step away from the idea that your DS is doing any of this on purpose. I know it goes against traditional parenting, but just take that blame away. Tell him you both know he's trying his best. Tell him all the time. If he melts down and / or is challenging, you both have to stay calm. If your DH can't, just get him to leave the room. If DS breaks things, try to calm him then talk after calmly about why its not safe to do that. No blame, no consequence because he's not doing it on purpose remember, no naughty step etc. For sensory regulation, try lots of sensory play throughout the day. Playdo, bubbles, kinetic sand, slime, trampoline if he needs to move, weighted blanket to calm. No telling him the right way to play, let him find his own ways as long as he's safe. E.g. DS liked to mix coloured chalks to make new colours. Join him in his play in his terms. Let him help you make routines together and write them out do he knows what happens when and what comes next. You'll get there with recognising the triggers for meltdowns too.
Honestly you and DS sound so much like me and my DS at that age, but you're a great parent and he's just a little boy trying his best in a world he finds very confusing. Remember that staying calm is the best regulation method we have.

I'm so sorry you're going through this. I've no experience of this kind of behaviour, however the lack of support would really and genuinely make me question my relationship with DH. First thing I'd do though is make him spend plenty 121 time with DS out and about so he can see exactly what you're dealing with. Sending you a huge virtual hug.