To have cried over DS behaviour?

[BargainBlunt]

DS is 3.5.

Nursery have called in the local authority to provide advice/support on DS. They aren't saying much more, just that there are concerns. I have spoken to GP who is v. dismissive, I completed forms but have since been told by HV I was given out of date forms by GP so now have to wait for them to have rejected and then can 'do other forms but little chance of being seen for 2 years or so", HV tells me not to bother as "it's not autism but anxiety" due to 'trauma' (she thinks covid plus moving house means trauma is causing the behavioural issues). Family and DH tell me there is nothing going on...just need to be firmer, DS takes the piss out of me cos he can etc.

Anyway, just tried to take DS for a haircut. A special kids place with cars. Spent all week talking about it, showing him videos, reading books. He was excited about going this morning. I even booked a double appointment to allow for all the tears and refusal.

DS tried to wreck the place. He licked the walls. He tried to lick the receptionist's face in a kind of mania. He climbed on top of strangers. He ran out into the street and road numerous times. He lay down in the street. Wouldn't let me near him. The hairdresser tried to corner him at one point and he screamed like a wild animal. We gave up after 40 mins. He then tried to run into random houses on the way home. Hid in a bush.

I cried in the car and called DH. DH told me I was making it all a bigger deal than it needed to be

"Stop over thinking everything"

I honestly feel like I'm gaslit. We keep having episodes like that and DH, GP, MiL, HV keep telling me it's just 'some kids'. Nursery staff seem to think something going on for DS too but everyone close to me thinks I'm being dramatic.

DH said me crying was making it all worse.

DS apologised in the car. Said he was scared. Kept saying "hair cup ouchy" and "sorry mummy". Which did make me feel awful. Should I not let him see me upset?

Hairdresser at one point said "poor boy has got his hair all in his eyes. you need to get that sorted mum" while I was trying to pin him down so he wouldn't tear the posters off the wall.

I mean....it's upsetting isn't it? I feel like everyone is saying basically this is normal mum stuff and I'm just not coping.

Am I being OTT? Do I just need to get my shit together? Is parenting a 3 year old boy really just this hard? I am finding it really hard to not tearful and DH is getting frustrated with me.

you’re not a bad parent
Clearly sensory issues.
read up on sensory processing disorders
get private OT input if you can
take any help on offer from LA, do they have an early help team?

it doesn’t matter whether your family and HV think it is or isn’t ASD or SPD, treat it as it is and adjust to his needs. Stop trying to squeeze a square peg into a round hole

I used to cut my DS hair at home until he was about 10. some parents snip bits off the fringe when asleep or in the bath.

a million percent well done for your boy for expressing his feelings verbally, praise him and capitalise on that, recognise and build on it.

He sounds so much like my Autistic boys, one used to lick everything including trolleys during covid, that was fun🤢. Haircut are a sensory nightmare, busy places, hates loud noise from others but loves making it, flicking lights really common. If you're on FB I'd search for a group for parents of Autistic children, I expect you'll find a lot of the stories familiar, I could write a heap myself I wasn't in so much pain. DCs dad was very dismissive pre diagnosis, it was always they need more discipline and I should control them better, he's a little better now, not much but not quite so backward about it.

Trauma practitioner here. When we say trauma, we mean a situation where a child finds themselves scared and out of control. COVID and a house move fit this. His safe world and safe space has been taken away due to the house move (not your fault btw, it is a life change that children need to learn to cope with). The hairdresser was an unknown for him, meaning that feeling of being unsafe was repeated, and he went into fight or flight. His body chose flight, he did everything he could to escape and feel safe again. Without knowing him, he needs to feel safe physically in his new space; think his own dark space or tent. He needs his parents to respond to his fears by calming him down in whatever way works best for him. I also think that his speech seems delayed and that will be adding to the frustration and fear because he cannot verbalise how he feels. Definitely talk to the nursery about support, whether that is trauma or something else, as there are lots of support strategies. Sending love, that sounds very upsetting for you both.

I haven't been able to read the whole thread but wanted to point out you can use right to choose via NHS - I think the waiting lists are around 6 months. We did this for our son's ADHD assessment. List here: adhduk.co.uk/right-to-choose/

They list autism assessments as well as ADHD, they don't all offer for children but I think Evolve does.

He is far too young to connect what happened in the day with the telling off and ensuing abusive behaviour. i do not agree @PeppermintChoc . Not at all.

Not read whole thread. But please DON’T book him another appointment and make DH take him. Poor lad clearly finds the process of having his haircut completely overwhelming. DS attends a specialist school and the boys either have long hair or the parents have found somewhere with SEN experience to cut it compassionately.

Obviously you need to be seen and assessed but in the meantime do lots of reading about autism and sensory needs so you can help him and yourself in those kind of situations. Lots of the information and support you will be offered post diagnosis is out there in support groups that you can access now. The diagnosis will help in formal settings but so much of managing SEN comes down to self education.

lots of love. It’s really tough xxx

Are you anywhere near Kent or Essex op? If so I’d recommend Lorna Wing- they will do pre-assessment consultations as well as assess. You will need to pay if self-referral, in your shoes I would do this if you can afford it.

I would ask the nursery to refer to the local child development centre if they can. If not I would ask to see a different GP (or move GPs) or a different health visitor. Make a list of every single behaviour you are concerned about and push for a referral. He sounds quite similar to my DD who has just been diagnosed with Autism. It’s frustrating that no one is on your side apart from the nursery. Are they able to have a chat with your DH and explain their concerns, he may listen more to them (although he sounds like an unhelpful dick to be honest).

I would speak to the nursery andorganise a meeting with the keyperson and senco (I am a practitioner of a preschool so its important to stress we want to help you and your ds so please organise a cha ce to get some support)

Secondly I would ask for a paedatric referral you say that sometimes he has limited speech and doesn't really speak in sentences, yet later say depending on emotional regulation he has different linguistic abilities - being more fluent in language.

The meltdown sounds hard and the bit that screams out to me is the "mummy help me" I have asd and work with children with asd and it sounds like whilst their could be neurodivergent tendencies that there might be something else as well.

I don't want to say brain tumour or a split personality but it reads like this and it sounds like both he and you need some support

God, you poor thing OP. I'm shocked reading yours posts at your DH's appalling lack of understanding, empathy or any sense of how to manage his DS kindly and reasonably, and the uselessness of the HV and your GP.

Your DS is clearly a DC who meets the criteria for an immediate assessment for autism, ADHD and other related sensory SENs. The fact that you and the nursery staff all think this is very telling, because you're the ones caring for your DS and therefore know the score.

I think it's time for you to be extremely firm and demand some action from the doctor on this. As for the HV, I would tell her that she's not helping and if she can't see what's right in front of her face and actually assist you in getting your DS referred for assessment you don't want to see her again. What a fucking useless person she is! for you OP.

Why does he need a hair cut? I’m not saying your child has ASD, but mine who has refused haircuts and acted like this for several years. We just used hair clips until it was long enough to pull back properly and then put it up of a day in a top knot and did a plait of a night to avoid knots/angsty brushing in morning. They even started school like that and were never teased, it seemed to be considered hip/cool but maybe it was because hipsters were in at the time?

He sounds extremely anxious and doesn't know how to deal with his feelings. I think you both (you and DH) need help with this. It isn't doing your son any good to see you cry or his father be aggressive. He has made the association that it is him that is making you sad and his father mad. That will only make his anxiety worse and make him afraid. That isn't fair. It is not his fault.

Ok sen parent here. Sending you a hug.
Firstly you sound stressed and confused.
Nursery need to communicate better.
You need to ask them for copies of observations etc. Are they thinking autism/adhd? Ask these questions. Also can they give you a daily log of what has happened when he is there.
His behaviour in the hairdressers sounds extreme. Was he overwhelmed. The licking is sensory seeking.
Do you notice his behaviours are worse out of the house?
Maybe get the hairdresser to come to your house next time?
Maybe first of all just for a chat to introduce herself. Show him her scissors etc.
Educate yourself look up autism, adhd etc. Read up on what you can.
Also there are groups on fb etc that can support you.
Your family may be in denial. As your husband may be also.
Ask the hv for special need support information for your area. Good luck I remember feeling really alone at first but it improved. X

Sounds like your husband has anger management issues /like a lot of men I guess/. Which then makes him to get triggered when your is showing difficult behaviour which your husband probably reads as anger.
Its absolutely not on for him to blame you for your sons behaviour. He needs to grow up.

You are allowed to cry whenever you feel like it, thats absolutely normal, its not up to your husband to allow you to do that.

I'm sending you a huge hug of support. My youngest is similar, she's calming down at 4 and a half. But she wasn't as extreme as your DS sounds(she still had me tearing my hair out in stress despite being less extreme, so I cant imagine how you're doing). I've found, no one is interested in helping young children showing signs of neurodivergence in the preschool years. A few people manage to get speech and language therapy, but the only people I know who got it had a social worker backing them up.

Obviously every area is different, but there's a distinct lack of support and plenty of gas lighting of mothers to believe it's their fault. I work with children with SEND so I know what I'm doing. But the amount of times I've been told it's all my fault. It's my fault she's coping as well as she thank you very much.

Basically you're going to have to become his speech and language therapist, behavioural tutor, ELSA worker etc. If he could communicate a little easier it might help. Have a look at Singing Hands on YouTube. Lots of basic makaton signs you can learn together. Just five minutes a day, make it fun and light. It's not meant to be a chore. Have a listen for sounds he struggles to pronounce and work on them. Things like a picture of a fish and asking if it's a Fish or a Wish can help him start to differentiate between those similar sounds. Again keep it light and minimal, it has more impact that way.

Some conversations about 'big feelings' could be good. "At the hair cut you had a big, scary feeling. It was so sad for you. When you have a big feeling tell Mummy. Mummy can make you safe" start labeling the outbursts as big feelings. Reinforce you'll keep him safe while he has a big feeling. The hope is eventually he'll spot he's starting to have an out burst and knows to let you know so you can get him out the situation triggering it. While he's like that, he's not going to be able to process anything. You can't reason with him, any speech is going to be more noise he can't process. It's best to get him somewhere quiet and safe(I appreciate that's not always possible) I used to use toilet cubicles in public places. The amount of times I held a screaming, kicking, hitting preschooler while sat on a public toilet I can't count. I'm surprised no one called social services to be honest! It is going to get better though. Pm me if you want to talk, I'm happy to let you vent because it's hard and isolating and I get it.

I’ve been there at the hairdresser…
agree with everyone else, clearly sensory, clearly some delayed language.

those expressions of love and empathy and his happiness when alone with you speak well for his future though and must warm your heart. You’re lucky to have him

Hanen “it takes two to talk” is a very “safe” book for parents who, like your husband, are scared.

I would echo what others have said about stamping out this “you made mummy sad” stuff. The trauma of moving house is nothing compared to the trauma of laying that on a 3 year old. It must stop.

I would focus on helping your husband change his behaviour. If ds learns to trust two people, not just one, the odds will tilt in his favour

OP I'm just repeating my earlier post as you've had so many replies I'm not sure you'll have seen it but if your DS is supposed to start school in September and doesn't turn 4 until after April 1st, have you considered keeping him back until Sept 2024? The Flexible School Admissions for Summer Borns group on FB is so helpful. It really sounds like an extra year to get some help in place would be beneficial.

Your update is awful, I'm so sorry that your H treated your son that way.

I went out to do the food shop this morning.

DH sent me a video of DS1 being so well behaved. Good as gold. No tantrums. No drama. He didn't ask or demand anything.

Then I come back and DS is hyper again.

DH is all "you're the issue" to me.

@CocoPlum I will definitely look into that. Thank you. I read somewhere they start the kids in year 8 at secondary who are held back a year at primary. I guess he would be the older by some way but he's definitely behind his peers now. The other kids don't understand him v well and he's quite isolated.

From your most recent example, it sounds like your H is over the top reactive to the point of abuse and you sound passive and wet.

Have either of you had parenting classes?

www.parentingforbrain.com/4-baumrind-parenting-styles/

You sound like a good, empathetic and loving mum. Your dh lacks empathy. Empathy makes people a much better parent. I'm glad people have been able to advise re possible SEN and how to seek help. Mumsnet comes into its own for things like this as pre Internet you'd probably have been left struggling rather than knowing to push for the support he needs.

Your child probably just doesn’t feel relaxed or safe around your husband, because he’s previously done things to hurt and frighten him. As such, he suppressed everything.

@BargainBlunt yes, the report is accepted by everyone. We were fast tracked to the have nhs paediatrician because we had the private report and she was happy to accept it and put it in his notes. The gp also put it on file and the SALT and school accepted it too. It was absolutely worth the cost.

I don’t know if your DH meant this to be helpful but the way you tell it, it sounds really spiteful. It also sounds like nonsense given everything that happened yesterday when your husband ended up pinning your son down

No one here can diagnose for you, obviously, but I’d definitely be pushing for an assessment. Either way though you and your husband need to be pulling together. It sounds like he undermines you and (deliberately?) creates upset and distress in your son. Is there anything else going on that would explain this? Is your marriage otherwise ok?

This is a concern for some parents but again, the FB group will have parents dealing with this. It'll be a case of asking the local authority to prove it is in the child's best interests to miss year 7 which wouldn't be the case for any child, let alone one who may have additional needs (not diagnosing!).

It does sound like you are your son's safe space.

You poor thing!

If it were me I would approach the nursery to see if they could right a summary of their concerns, I would also write my own letter and speak to HV GP etc, requesting a second opinion if they are a bit dismissive. There is help out there and you're not alone. The nursery seem supportive so perhaps arrange a meeting for a bit of a chat.

It’s possible if there is an issue he was masking when with your husband, usually when people mask they struggle after the event which would then be why he felt hyper after.

Ignore any upsetting comments on this thread that aren’t helpful to you.