AIBU to not give DH a medal for this shop?

[DinnerThyme]

I love DH more than anyone else on this planet and he's my absolute best friend. He's kind, he's smart, he's interesting, he's handsome, he's witty, he's fun. But, he is completely fucking incompetent and it drives me insane. I have to do everything. Granted, he works very hard, when being micromanaged to the nth degree and would work 24/7 if asked - but, unless given explicitly clear instructions, everything he does just falls apart. It's 10x more work for both us so I don't think it's even "strategic incompetence".

A few months ago, it all came to a head. I expressed how unbelievably miserable it was making me to always have to be the only real adult in the relationship, that his incompetence is hurting me and that he's a grown adult who should be able to cope with all of these things. He fully accepted the problem and the responsibility to fix it. Since then, to my mind, things have not improved enough. To his mind, he has improved and is trying.

He outlined his examples:

• "Offering to help with [an aspect of my job]" - (Essentially, I give a lot of presentations and it's useful to run through those with someone before I give them. For years, when I ask DH, he'll say yes and then try to avoid it meaning that I waste huge amounts of time waiting for him (like "oh, sure, I'll just go to the bathroom and then we'll run through it" - but then he goes off and does something else and doesn't come back so I spent ages waiting for him for no reason). He says that he's massively improved on that - but, to my memory, he's not helped me one single time since the big argument - he's just promised to, which is no change from before. I've said it's fine to say no but he won't, he'll just lead me on. It's worth noting that he has expertise in an area which is why it's useful to have his input and I have expertise in an area of his work and frequently help him out with his.
• "Keeping the house tidy" - We've had to cancel his family coming over twice since the big argument because the house was too messy and I refused to tidy the whole house by myself for his guests. Any tidying he's done has been under explicit instructions from me (literally to the point of "there's some rubbish, put that in the bin", "that's DS's shoe, put that in the cupboard"). When left to tidy by himself, I'll return an hour later and it's literally not tidier - he'll have moved one pile of crap to one place and put another pile of crap where it was. The only exception to this is the dishwasher, which DH insists on doing every single night before bed, regardless of how much actually needs to go into it. To my memory, he's not done any tidying at all without being explicitly asked other than the dishwasher. In fairness to him, he does also do laundry and has some kind of "system" that I can't fathom for where he puts different baskets depending on whether they're clean/dirty/wet/dry and then split by person...I don't understand his system so I don't touch it and leave him to it. It apparently works for him (except on the frequent occasions that he can't find anything, when he's not sure if a basket is clean or dirty and when wet baskets get forgotten about and need rewashing) so I don't micromanage that and just leave him to his chaos "system". He has not swept, hoovered, wiped, mopped, dusted...
• "Taken charge of food deliveries...I did the last one without any support" - He's done two. The first one I sat with him, with a list and told him exactly what to put in the basket, in exact quantities. The second one, I told him some things that were needed (shampoo, conditioner, nappies etc) but left him to it. He bought the non-food items I asked for but, in terms of just food, he bought: sausage rolls, juice, pasta frozen ready meal, smoked salmon, cream cheese, cheddar, apples, crisps, squeezy fruit pouches, bear strawberry yoyos, frozen pizza, curly fries, avocados, milk, bread, bananas. This is to sustain a family of four, for a week. Keep in mind, I can't have dairy so I'm not able to eat the sausage rolls, the pasta ready meal, the cream cheese, the cheddar, the frozen pizzas or the milk. I'm baffled as to how he believes that this is a sign he's done something good. I feel like it's what a 10yo would buy.
• "Dealing with DS and DD issues in the morning (like nappies and feeding) and not just fucking off" - ok, yeah, if one of the DCs need a nappy change or DD is crying for milk and I'm not there then he will now change/feed them instead of waiting for me to come back and sort it out. I'm not sure why that's such a huge win though.

AIBU to expect more "progress" than this in three months? Granted, he has made progress, he did do a Tesco delivery by himself and he does change nappies/feed the baby if it happens right in front of him and he does load and put on the dishwasher. Am I being too harsh?

YABU - He's made some progress so that shows he is putting in effort, stick at it and he'll get there.
YANBU - He's made such slow progress that he's clearly not putting in any effort, cut your losses, he won't get there.

"He tends to do this big shocked response when I do it properly for him and it’s suddenly so much better. For example, a few weeks ago, he was tidying the bedroom (after I asked him explicitly to tidy the bedroom) whilst I was working. After hours, he thinks he’s done. But the room (to me), looks almost identical to before."

Because it is identical. He did fuck all in that bedroom because he could get away with lying on the bed on his phone while you worked for hours.

"In contrast, when it’s about doing things for the DC, if I ask him to do it then he makes out like I’m always expecting him to do it"

Ah, a different reaction. Because this time he knows he can't get away with just not doing it and acting all surprised. He'll have to do it but he'll sulk and huff and puff and make accusations. Hopefully this tactic will mean you stop asking him.

Funny that.

OP could you reply to all the posters asking about neurodiversity? Because this rings a lot of bells for many, and if it is that, then the right treatment could actually solve the problem. Research it together and pursue an assessment.

And if it's not that, then he's being a deliberately incompetent dick.

The two possibilities are so opposite that its vital you work out which one it is.

Then why, in the name of arse, did you use the phrase if it didn’t make sense to you? Fully aware that it was nonsensical bollocks and you still said it. Absolutely cracking.

Definitely ADHD. My husband is exactly the same. It can really impact on a relationship unless you do research and take steps to adjust. It’s so difficult.

The thing is that I’ve watched him do stuff. He doesn’t lay on the bed with his phone. He will literally move an item to one spot and back again, then make a pile and divide the pile back up. He’s putting in absolutely all the effort of tidying but going at a snails pace and then undoing and redoing all of it as he goes along.

I just couldn’t be bothered with a husband who managed to hold down a full time teaching career and yet was utterly helpless at any other task. To me, a partner is a partner. I wouldn’t want to have to make them lists and hold their hands saying ‘ok let’s tidy tidy, remember you need to pick the rubbish up and put it in the bin! That’s how we tidy up! And when baby needs a nappy change we change baby.’

He is a grown man. Implying that he must have ADHD which means he doesn’t understand that tidying up means putting rubbish in the bin and picking items up off the floor is ridiculous. Unless he is at the point where he needs full time care/assisted living, he is able to do these simple daily tasks, without himself being an extra task for op to do. On top of all the housework, and all the childcare, and being the one who works full time, and everything else, op must also now be her husband’s mummy and teach him how to do everything step by step while holding his hand.

"The thing is that I’ve watched him do stuff. He doesn’t lay on the bed with his phone. He will literally move an item to one spot and back again, then make a pile and divide the pile back up. He’s putting in absolutely all the effort of tidying but going at a snails pace and then undoing and redoing all of it as he goes along."

So you think it's more likely he has ADHD then? Why is his reaction annoyance and accusation when it's something he can't get away with not doing? Why is it you that he doesn't bother to shop for?

How long do you watch him for while he slowly goes through the motions? Minutes I'm guessing before you either take over or leave him to it?

Men do this sort of thing so you take over and do it for them and hopefully never ask again. DH said both he and two male colleagues admitted to purposely making crap cups of coffee so no one ever asked them for one again.

My DH is similar with housework to yours so parts of your OP made me laugh (sorry). DH also does the moving one pile of crap from one place to another. He somehow manages to make a room look messier than when he first started.

In contrast, when it’s about doing things for the DC, if I ask him to do it then he makes out like I’m always expecting him to do it because he doesn’t ever ask me - he fails to recognise that he doesn’t ask me to change a nappy/give a bottle/get a snack/put on shoes etc because I do those things without being asked and I’m asking him to do it now because I’m doing something else.

Have you said this to him? What’s his response?

You seem to have very little understanding of what executive dysfunction entails. And no one is saying OP must become her husband's mummy, on the contrary, if he has ADHD he needs to seek treatment so that he can become more functional.

Honestly, I tried to avoid commenting on it too much because it became hostile very quickly. I’m not a doctor and don’t know if he has ADHD or not. I’ve taken it on board and is something I’ll raise. I did ask PP who has ADHD for their input but they appeared to take offence and then began claiming I’d said things that I never said so thought it was probably best to avoid looking for further guidance on this thread for now with respect to that theory. I have taken it on board though. I don’t think it’s my job to diagnose him with anything. I’m not qualified to do so.

Like he doesn’t even change or feed his child, and complains if he’s asked to do it. He is not so crippled by a hidden disability (that has never affected his work) that he is incapable of understanding that after being asked to change his child multiple times, the child needs changing regularly. He just knows if he makes it all hard work he will get out of doing it most of the time.

I worked with a man who would sit near the phone as it rang and brazen it out hoping someone else would answer. I asked him why he did that and he said "because someone else will pick it up". He was usually right. He was another that admitted to making crap coffee on purpose and not washing cups properly.

He also used to ignore a pile of paperwork that had to be dealt with 3 times per day or shuffle things around making the task harder. He openly admitted it was so he wouldn't be asked again. Lazy arrogant twat he was.

Does it involve whining and complaining because you’ve been asked to do the most basic of parenting tasks? If it does, then ADHD or not it isn’t acceptable in a co-parent.

And people are suggesting being his mummy. Making him shopping lists, making him step by steps of how to do basic jobs. Who does this for him at work? Who makes him lists of what to do each lesson and how to mark each essay? Nobody!

Is that a sign of ADHD? I don’t know if he has ADHD or not.

My reaction varies. If we need something done quickly sometimes I’ll take over, sometimes I’ll leave him to it. Often I’ll point out what’s going wrong. It really depends on the situation at hand.

Definitely? You, and nobody else on here can say definitely. ADHD seems to be the thing that people are using to defend his inability to function like an adult. ADHD doesn't stop you functioning like a responsible adult, does it?

Stop the armchair diagnosing.

He can't (won't) ensure that his wife has food she can eat or change his kids nappy, he just waits for his wife to come back and do it. Yet he's a fully competent secondary teacher following safeguarding procedures, pastoral care issues and teaching GCSE students.

Ok 👍

Yep. But apparently that’s because he has executive dysfunctiom and just can’t possibly manage normal everyday tasks at home. Something obviously happens to him on the drive from school to his house where somehow he can manage tasks there but not after he walks through the front door. Funny, isn’t it? How someone that does not have the comprehension to know he must change his child and move rubbish to the bin can apparently be teaching secondary level students!

"Is that a sign of ADHD? I don’t know if he has ADHD or not.

My reaction varies. If we need something done quickly sometimes I’ll take over, sometimes I’ll leave him to it. Often I’ll point out what’s going wrong. It really depends on the situation at hand."

I don't think in this case it's a sign of ADHD, like you I'm not a doctor. But you're an intelligent woman, you know the way he treats you. You know he's telling you he's done things when he hasn't.

How do you know he wasn't just chilling out when you thought he was tidying for hours while you were at work?

Okay that sounds good 💐It may well not be, but there are enough "ADHD flags" in what you're describing that it's certainly worth investigating.

Recommend you research it a bit yourselves, particularly how it presents in adults. Some GPs are good but others are ill-informed. If you did go down that path, he could have an assessment by a specialist, and he might find stimulant drugs helpful, and you can also find specialist therapists who teach techniques for people with ADHD. Also just general peer support and techniques from the community are helpful.

I'd caution that he needs to take a lead in this: even if he does have ADHD, it's not fair for him to expect you to solve it for him, he needs to learn techniques to help himself and pull his weight in the joint tasks.

If it is ADHD or similar, there are often concurrent self-esteem issues from having struggled for so many years with "easy" tasks, so he may be confused and embarassed and a bit defensive.

mine is just the same although great at DIY things & doing the washing. He can't however go to the shop without phoning me 3 times with questions when he only has 3 things on his list

Onnabugeisha
I'm not being ablist at all.

I'm a neurodiverse woman who is fed up with people excusing male incompetence with whataboutery, usually involving claiming that bog-standard male (as a class, NAMALT before accused of man hating 🙄) pattern behaviour is likely to be neurodiversity.

If he is managing to do a teaching job then he is not so incompetent that he cannot do a family shop.

You're wittering on about what the OP needs to do to make everything right for him, but she's:
A) sat with him and given him a list and exact quantities
B) given him some must haves on a list and let him get on with it
C) suggested explaining what she does and why to help him understand

And despite this, she's still being picked apart by people desperate to excuse the behaviour with whataboutery.

This.

I think whether he has ADHD is actually slightly moot at this point because so much of this seems to be attitude based

So I mentioned my Dh with executive disfunction up thread and how we found a system that works for up. But the key point was that we worked together to find a system that worked for both of us. I didn't get attitude back. If someonethibg wasn't working he didn't just stop doing it he mentioned it and er would both come up with ways to try to do it in a way that suits his needs and mine.

So things like agreeing to hear your presentation and then never being available could be adhd. but complaining that you ask him to do stuff with the kids, thats an attitude issue

There is only so much you can do when rhe others person won't meet you half way, you cannot force someone to care enough to try to fix issues unfortunately to it will always come down to - what is he willing to do to fix this, not what can you do to fix him

I think whether he has ADHD is actually slightly moot at this point because so much of this seems to be attitude based
Agree wholeheartedly with this.

He might be neurodiverse, he may not be, but there's a lot of neurodiverse people who don't behave in this way and don't complain when expected to share the load with their partner.