AIBU to not give DH a medal for this shop?

[DinnerThyme]

I love DH more than anyone else on this planet and he's my absolute best friend. He's kind, he's smart, he's interesting, he's handsome, he's witty, he's fun. But, he is completely fucking incompetent and it drives me insane. I have to do everything. Granted, he works very hard, when being micromanaged to the nth degree and would work 24/7 if asked - but, unless given explicitly clear instructions, everything he does just falls apart. It's 10x more work for both us so I don't think it's even "strategic incompetence".

A few months ago, it all came to a head. I expressed how unbelievably miserable it was making me to always have to be the only real adult in the relationship, that his incompetence is hurting me and that he's a grown adult who should be able to cope with all of these things. He fully accepted the problem and the responsibility to fix it. Since then, to my mind, things have not improved enough. To his mind, he has improved and is trying.

He outlined his examples:

• "Offering to help with [an aspect of my job]" - (Essentially, I give a lot of presentations and it's useful to run through those with someone before I give them. For years, when I ask DH, he'll say yes and then try to avoid it meaning that I waste huge amounts of time waiting for him (like "oh, sure, I'll just go to the bathroom and then we'll run through it" - but then he goes off and does something else and doesn't come back so I spent ages waiting for him for no reason). He says that he's massively improved on that - but, to my memory, he's not helped me one single time since the big argument - he's just promised to, which is no change from before. I've said it's fine to say no but he won't, he'll just lead me on. It's worth noting that he has expertise in an area which is why it's useful to have his input and I have expertise in an area of his work and frequently help him out with his.
• "Keeping the house tidy" - We've had to cancel his family coming over twice since the big argument because the house was too messy and I refused to tidy the whole house by myself for his guests. Any tidying he's done has been under explicit instructions from me (literally to the point of "there's some rubbish, put that in the bin", "that's DS's shoe, put that in the cupboard"). When left to tidy by himself, I'll return an hour later and it's literally not tidier - he'll have moved one pile of crap to one place and put another pile of crap where it was. The only exception to this is the dishwasher, which DH insists on doing every single night before bed, regardless of how much actually needs to go into it. To my memory, he's not done any tidying at all without being explicitly asked other than the dishwasher. In fairness to him, he does also do laundry and has some kind of "system" that I can't fathom for where he puts different baskets depending on whether they're clean/dirty/wet/dry and then split by person...I don't understand his system so I don't touch it and leave him to it. It apparently works for him (except on the frequent occasions that he can't find anything, when he's not sure if a basket is clean or dirty and when wet baskets get forgotten about and need rewashing) so I don't micromanage that and just leave him to his chaos "system". He has not swept, hoovered, wiped, mopped, dusted...
• "Taken charge of food deliveries...I did the last one without any support" - He's done two. The first one I sat with him, with a list and told him exactly what to put in the basket, in exact quantities. The second one, I told him some things that were needed (shampoo, conditioner, nappies etc) but left him to it. He bought the non-food items I asked for but, in terms of just food, he bought: sausage rolls, juice, pasta frozen ready meal, smoked salmon, cream cheese, cheddar, apples, crisps, squeezy fruit pouches, bear strawberry yoyos, frozen pizza, curly fries, avocados, milk, bread, bananas. This is to sustain a family of four, for a week. Keep in mind, I can't have dairy so I'm not able to eat the sausage rolls, the pasta ready meal, the cream cheese, the cheddar, the frozen pizzas or the milk. I'm baffled as to how he believes that this is a sign he's done something good. I feel like it's what a 10yo would buy.
• "Dealing with DS and DD issues in the morning (like nappies and feeding) and not just fucking off" - ok, yeah, if one of the DCs need a nappy change or DD is crying for milk and I'm not there then he will now change/feed them instead of waiting for me to come back and sort it out. I'm not sure why that's such a huge win though.

AIBU to expect more "progress" than this in three months? Granted, he has made progress, he did do a Tesco delivery by himself and he does change nappies/feed the baby if it happens right in front of him and he does load and put on the dishwasher. Am I being too harsh?

YABU - He's made some progress so that shows he is putting in effort, stick at it and he'll get there.
YANBU - He's made such slow progress that he's clearly not putting in any effort, cut your losses, he won't get there.

"I love how men’s selfishness and the double burden is always explained away as some form of neurodivergence on this site"

Yep and when he has an affair simply because he can the OP will come back and be asked if he could be depressed or "having a midlife crisis". Nah mate, he just wanted a shag and thought he'd get away with it.

Lazy fucker who has played a blinder on the OP with his "kind handsomeness"

Onnabugeisha
Sexism towards men? Really. 🙄

There's thread after thread on here of women struggling with male partners who apparently manage fine in their careers, managed fine before having a woman to offload onto, and yet apparently can't manage the simplest task in the home.

There's study after study showing women take on more mental load, more of the domestic load than men, and it's not because women as a sex class enjoy mopping floors and worrying about dentist appointments.

Yet on every thread where a woman is struggling with man child behaviour there's always a handful of apologists who will find any reason why it is a poor man needs excusing for doing barely anything at home. The whataboutery is strong.

Yes, OP's partner might be neurodiverse, but there's a lot of neurodiverse men out there who care enough to make life happen without being babied by their partners, and there's neurodiverse women out there who also get on with life.

Apologies but have only read your comments OP so someone might have suggested this already but have a look at the organised Mum app. I could have written your post. Things arent perfect still but the app does the micromanagement not rather than me.

I was just about to say online groceries might be better. I find it easier for this reason. I can search for exactly what I need and theres less chance of me getting distracted by all the other stuff that they’re ramming down my throat as soon as I walk through the door.

I don’t know if this helps but my ideal situation for taking on new tasks is this:

I am allocated a new task, or group of tasks that will now be mine indefinitely and then I’m left with complete autonomy to figure out how to execute them. I might wobble at first but this then usually evolves into a more and more streamlined way of getting them done. Thats the way to play to my ADHD strengths, in my case anyway, because I really struggle to follow other peoples instructions. I also struggle to let other people help me and prefer to do everything on my own because I can’t be arsed to explain my peculiar ways to people 😆, I’d rather just do it myself.

Have you tried that with you DH? So he and you know where you both are and he’s left to get on with it. It might take a while for his confidence to build, might take a while to realise he doesn’t need to consult you and can do these tasks in the way that suits him best. You both might start to enjoy it.

I hope you find some answers, you sound like you have a lovely marriage and you’re a very supportive wife.

"A few months ago, it all came to a head. I expressed how unbelievably miserable it was making me to always have to be the only real adult in the relationship, that his incompetence is hurting me and that he's a grown adult who should be able to cope with all of these things. He fully accepted the problem and the responsibility to fix it. Since then, to my mind, things have not improved enough. To his mind, he has improved and is trying."

This is the key paragraph. He sat through the argument listening to how hurt his wife is by his lack of effort. Then he got bored and said yeah, sorry, won't do it again. Then he gaslights the OP by saying "but I've chaaaaanged" when he clearly fucking hasn't. ADHD wouldn't stop him from putting systems in place to be more competent at home and to suggest that is a fucking insult frankly.

In turn the OP is so blinded by love for this wonderful kind funny competent at work man that she loves him even more than her kids! He's having her for a mug.

I just love that you put your head above the carpet.

Again, that’s not what I said, at all.

@LolaSmiles
This is really ableist of you I think
”What do you think he will have done before the OP was doing it all? Probably doing it himself.” Actually, a lot was probably not getting done.

“What do you think he does at work? Probably does his job.” But probably with help and the fact it’s easier to get specific tasks done than work in a “just do what is needed” vague system.

“What would he do if the OP died tomorrow or walked out? Sort it out himself.” Or not, when my DH was gone for six months (he took the DC with him), I did quite poorly. I lost 1/3rd my body weight as I would forget to eat lunch and dinner most days. I lost track of my housecleaning rota without him and ended up carrying around anti-bac wipes and wiping everything I used or touched. I slept on top of the bed covers because I couldnt handle the scheduling of washing sheets. I accidentally sold my car online on impulse* without remembering that I hadn’t arranged for a new car and then would take wrong bus and be late to work until I managed to get a new car. I forgot my medication and a few times accidentally overdosed as I’d think I’d forgotten, but had not so some days took none and other days was tripling up or more because counting pills from the date on the packet was a not a good method. I was scammed out of £28k by a con man. The list goes on. All my energy went to focusing at work to keep my job, by evening I would drink some chocolate almond milk, pass out on the bed and wake up at 6am to do it all over again.

What do you think all the women out there who are neurodiverse (diagnosed and undiagnosed) do? They know shit needs doing so they make it happen and find their own systems that work for them. Well, things fall through the cracks. It doesn’t all get done. If I’d had the DC, they’d probably have been taken away by SS tbh. Its a real disability, and yes we are full grown adults, but I’m not liking this narrative that such disabilities affect women less.

*impulsive behaviour is part of ADHD as well….

Where did she say those words?

DS is 11 and has ADHD. He is perfectly capable of understanding that DD is lactose intolerant and therefore can't have regular ice cream or milk. The fact that her DH is NOT capable of understanding this basic point is not exactly a ringing endorsement of his care and respect for her.

Sorry, have I misunderstood what you meant by
So I haven’t told him exactly what to buy, just the way I do it and why I do it that way. Would it be better if I set the expectation that he has to do it my way and give him a list of exactly what I would buy?

?

Is he quite emotionally immature? I don't mean loving, btw.

@Onnabugeisha you've clearly had a rough time but can you see that your likely projecting here?

There are many many men who act like the OPs husband and most of the time they're just lazy sexist pricks who see it all as wife work.

He knows how much he is hurting his wife so he'd care enough to make sure there was food she could eat if he gave a shit. He managed to buy the kids stuff after all.

They have form for this behaviour. Including making racist remarks and being deliberately goady. They enjoy saying things they know will whip people up which on threads about people's personal lives, isn't on.

That’s actually the opposite of what you claim she said.

She’s not insisted he do it her way or told him what to do/buy. She’s explained what she does and why. A poster stated that might do better if she was more prescriptive and she’s asking if she should set the expectation that it be done her way (as that currently isn’t the car) and give him a list of exactly what she would buy.

Ignore the man-haters who are determined every penis-haver is a total arsehole, because it won't help you any (unless you do already want to LTB in which case, go for it..)

Your shopping example, my DP would fail miserably in that context too - so we sit and meal plan together, and then write a list together, we use an app called co-do so he can go round the supermarket and actively tick off stuff he has got in the trolley. There are still some items he would have to message me about to check if its a good substitute (some he can now figure out, others not so much) but its made that particular task vastly easier.

If I don't do this with him though, he can't think about a weeks worth of shopping for a weeks worth of meals, he will buy what he needs for that day and nothing else. It still baffles him that I will ask him to buy ingredients we already have, that I like to have in stock, so if we're planning something that uses tinned tomatoes and I know we have a tin, I want another tin, so we can use the one we have and replace it with the new one - HE thinks 'we have a tin, no need to buy that'... and cannot see the point in having a spare in the cupboard.

He's not great at understanding buying more of a thing if we have some but it might not be enough either... so if we have some flour in a bag, theres no difference in his mind to a full bag, or just dust in the bottom of an almost empty bag, unless he has gone to buy ingredients for a specific recipe that requests an exact amount of something.

As for 'well they all survived before the DW/DP came along.'. well no, mine didnt.

He lived with his parents, or between parents and another girlfriend, he worked in warehouses/factories with very specific tasks and lost a LOT of jobs as a result of being unable to follow verbal instructions or unable to switch tasks quickly.

When left to fend for himself he would eat whatever there was or get takeaway, he could not cook a proper meal. His brain is quite happy if there is food he can eat, he eats it, he's full, job done. He'd eat tinned pasta and chips, or a sandwich made of whatever there is, or a tube of pringles and a chicken breast, theres no need in his mind for things to go together, have seasoning or flavours that complement one another, its just 'will this stop me being hungry?'.

It is also possible that he is lazy, as well as ND, that he grew up being taught by example that certain jobs were 'womens work' or just allowed to build habits that are not useful. Theres nothing that says he HAS to be JUST ND or JUST a lazy fucker!

Currently isn’t the case. Not car.

Onnabugeisha
The OP can't win though!

The first one I sat with him, with a list and told him exactly what to put in the basket, in exact quantities.
So the OP has sat down with a list and specified quantities, which she should not have to do but she's trying to help him. After all he apparently can't do a good shop but can manage a teaching career. 🙄
The second one, I told him some things that were needed (shampoo, conditioner, nappies etc) but left him to it. He bought the non-food items I asked for but, in terms of just food, he bought: sausage rolls, juice, pasta frozen ready meal, smoked salmon, cream cheese, cheddar, apples, crisps, squeezy fruit pouches, bear strawberry yoyos, frozen pizza, curly fries, avocados, milk, bread, bananas. This is to sustain a family of four, for a week.
The next time she's still taking the mental load, gave some must haves and left him to do the food shop, but he ordered a load of rubbish, a huge chunk of it the OP can't eat for dietary reasons.

Again, this is a man who is competent enough to plan and deliver a curriculum and manage pastoral issues and deal with a huge number of organisational tasks at work, but he apparently is incapable of buying appropriate food for his family.

This is whole aim of weaponised incompetence. The partner claiming they can't do simple tasks will continue to find a way to do a rubbish job, whatever the competent spouse does.

The aim is that it becomes so exhausting for the competent spouse to guess what the so-called incompetent one needs to function with domestic basics that eventually they give up and conclude it's easier to do it themselves.

"Ignore the man-haters who are determined every penis-haver is a total arsehole"

Fucking man haters? I don't hate men thanks. I've got one at home that manages to treat me with more than an iota of respect.

@LolaSmiles
Again, this is a man who is competent enough to plan and deliver a curriculum and manage pastoral issues and deal with a huge number of organisational tasks at work, but he apparently is incapable of buying appropriate food for his family.

Youre making ableist assumptions from a place of ignorance about ADHD. It seems you’d only consider the possibility of ADHD if he couldn’t hold down a job. Maybe not even then, I’m pretty sure you’re also quick to cry cocklodger.

Your view on men is always the worst case, most negative view.

So has he ever lived alone & shopped/cooked/cleaned/paid bills?

What about before you had kids-who did what then?

"It is also possible that he is lazy, as well as ND"

It is possible (and more likely) that he is just lazy but because you're not a man hater you completely ignored that

"he worked in warehouses/factories with very specific tasks and lost a LOT of jobs as a result of being unable to follow verbal instructions or unable to switch tasks quickly."

Yep. Unlike the man in question, completely different in fact.

@LolaSmiles
The OP can't win though!

Yes she can, if it is ADHD. I hope you’re not implying that a partner with ADHD will always be a useless twat? Sounds like it. That’s not the case. They don’t need him to be diagnosed to research and apply tools that help people with ADHD to see if they make a difference or not. If they make no difference, fine you can tell me told you so, he’s a lazy arse. But in the context of a loving long term relationship with children, is it not at least worth being open to the possibility of ADHD and the attempt to communicate and set up systems that would support such a possibility? It could be a huge success. I pull my weight in my family, I just need a bit of scaffolding to keep me on track.

@LordSugarTits
”he worked in warehouses/factories with very specific tasks and lost a LOT of jobs as a result of being unable to follow verbal instructions or unable to switch tasks quickly."

Yep. Unlike the man in question, completely different in fact.

No, not completely different. The man in question couldn’t do a second food shop after he’d received extensive, detailed verbal instructions during a first food shop. He is also unable to follow verbal instructions.

@Onnabugeisha you'll excuse this man no matter what anyone says. Because you're projecting.

What he is doing to the OP is nothing new, in fact it's textbook. Wifework 101 for Cavemen.