To want a girl?

[Namechanged2023]

Another thread like this, I know.

Two boys, 7 and 4. Both hard work in different ways, although lovely of course too. Both daddies boys, none of this mummy’s boy stuff which I would love.

I never ruled out a third, but DH isn’t keen as he is almost 40, I’m 5 years younger. I would really like a daughter. I know there’s no guarantee but I know plenty who’ve followed the old fashioned methods and managed it.

DH dead against it, it just feels a bit unfair that the one who doesn’t want another gets the final say, especially when he’s fine with his 2 boys, and he knew I was younger when we got married!

We were all in school once and we remember who the badly behaved kids were—overwhelmingly boys.

I've worked in schools, I've taught kids of all ages. I've encountered badly behaved children of both sexes. What is clear to me is that the way society treats boys and girls is very much the root cause. And you are part of the problem as you seem to write boys off as a problem from before they are even born.

Sure, the girls were no angels but they weren’t going to physically or (later on) sexually assault you, now were they?

Why do you think men are more likely to be physically or sexually abusive? How do we tackle this?
Do you believe boys are born to behave like this?

This is not helpful! The OP is allowed to want a girl, it doesn't mean she's an evil person. Mumsnet is full of horribleness like this!
OP I would go for it if you have the finances, you'd love a third despite the gender and you're up for the challenge. You might need need to talk your hubby round too though.. whatever you decide to do, good luck :-)

Gosh that is so sad. Your poor boy!

We left pretty sharpish!

I was also told a number of times that I must be really strict as he's so well behaved! Like a well behaved boy is unusual.....

I ofc think parents should do their best to raise kind, considerate boys.

But if their boy is difficult, I don’t think it’s fair to blame the parents if they did their best.

If your DH doesn’t want another one it’s all moot. You both have to be on the same page with that, at the very least.

And if their girl is difficult? Is that down to parenting or just bad luck?

On the contrary I think I bend over backwards MORE to make sure my boys behave kindly and considerately because they are boys. I’ve had friends whose daughters have shoved and snatched but not told off, whereas when my DS retaliated I was expected to tell him off! On one occasion we all went swimming together and the DD was splashing my DS who was getting upset, friend did nothing - if my DS had splashed someone who clearly didn’t like it I’d always stop him there and then. Similarly, demanding girls = strong, know their own mind. Demanding boys = bratty, boisterous, rude.

No, had my second DS been a girl I probably would have felt that my family was complete more than I do now. But he wasn’t, if he was a girl he wouldn’t have been him. He is him, he is a real person and I adore him, and not for one second would I trade him for an imaginary girl. It’s not one or the other, you can adore the children you have and want another gender.

Why do you think men are more likely to be physically or sexually abusive

… I don’t know exactly why, but statistics ofc say they overwhelmingly are and this is backed up by everyday experience, and is a pattern repeated in virtually every culture.

How do we tackle this?

Of course people should raise all their children to be kind and considerate. But the failures don’t always lie with the parent. It’s like blaming the dog owner for the bulldog’s nature.

Do you believe boys are born to behave like this?

More likely to than girls, which is different from the above.

I fundamentally don’t believe in blank slate-ism, so I doubt you and I are ever going to see eye-to-eye on this.

I don’t know exactly why, but statistics ofc say they overwhelmingly are and this is backed up by everyday experience, and is a pattern repeated in virtually every culture.

And there's the key word culture.
Gender stereotypes and societal expectations around how we treat boys and girls has a huge impact on behaviour.
The whole 'boys will be boys' outlook is so damaging.

Of course people should raise all their children to be kind and considerate. But the failures don’t always lie with the parent. It’s like blaming the dog owner for the bulldog’s nature.

Thankfully humans are different to dogs!!
As a parent you have a huge influence on your child's behaviour and providing there aren't and SEND or ND issues then there is no reason why a boy would be more challenging than a girl.

I think you need to both sit down and discuss the reasons why you want another and the reasons he doesn't and see if there is a compromise on one of your parts.

Did he know you wanted 3 children when you got married? If so then it is unfair and he's being unreasonable unless his reasons are that you can not afford, health issues erc.

I certainly think you need to discuss this as you may become resentful and it could damage your relationship.

X

You mention your husband knew you were younger when you got married, well you knew he was older when you married 🤷‍♀️

As a mother of only boys who had fertility issues, I am thankful everyday for my boys who are perfectly well behaved outside and inside of school. Obviously they have their moments just like any other girl or boy!

I hate to see boys being put in a certain category, mainly by grown women, ever thought they may pick up on this?

it just feels a bit unfair that the one who doesn’t want another gets the final say
Having children should be a 'two yeses' situation - your alternative is to force someone who doesn't want another child to have one, how could that possibly be fairer???

especially when he’s fine with his 2 boys
They are also your boys. I hope you're not this blatant about them being such a disappointment to you that you consider them 'his' to them...

and he knew I was younger when we got married
Right, and you knew he was older.

The whole 'boys will be boys' outlook is so damaging

Nobody here has this outlook. Boys should be raised to be considerate and kind, no one is throwing up their hands and saying we shouldn’t try—if we defer completely to nature the problem will be worse.

But we shouldn’t ignore nature either.

Thankfully humans are different to dogs!!

The point is that humans are not different from any other animal. We do have an innate nature, and it’s not so easy to change as we’d all like.

As a parent you have a huge influence on your child's behaviour and providing there aren't and SEND or ND issues then there is no reason why a boy would be more challenging than a girl

You are overly optimistic. Parents can soften the edges, but anyone with multiple children knows that you ‘discover’ more than ‘direct’ your child.

Also, you well know that boys jhave more SEN and behavioural issues than girls which makes it riskier to have boys, in that sense.

All you have to do is casually peruse MN to know that so many mothers struggle with their ND boys. This ofc is not to say that ND girls aren’t difficult (they are) but statistically it will be less likely from the POV of a parent-to-be

I do understand where you are coming from. I really wanted a girl after I had my boy and was lucky enough to get that. Bringing up girls is different. But not massively. Yes, my DD is the typical 'good girl' at school (she's 10) but this often translates in having to deal with all the challenging behaviour at home. Also, she has been bullied by a couple of girls in the past so they're not all angels.

Talking about my 2, my DD is much more cheeky than my DS. She is more boisterous/clumsy than her DB.

In terms of 'daddy's girl'etc. I find it changes over the years so your DS's may be more bonded to you when older. My DS started as more a 'mummy's boy' then swapped, then back to me now. My DD has always been a 'daddy's girl' but now she's a bit older I get a look in too. Do you ever spend 1:1 time with your boys? Could you find something special to do from a shared interest?

It is hard to long for a baby that at the moment you can't have. Have you explained all this to your husband?

Hmm It's a big gamble to take. Imagine how gutted you are going to be if you end up with another boy, you're still not going to feel complete/satisfied. In fact, you'll probably feel worse.

Can you honestly say that if your second born had been a girl that you would have considered a third? Probably not.

Hence why it's not really about wanting the third child, it's wanting a girl - which brings me back to my first point - it's a huge gamble to take.

I hate to see boys being put in a certain category, mainly by grown women, ever thought they may pick up on this?

To be quite honest, I do think it’s tough to be a boy as there is a lot of negativity surrounding them.

But I’m not talking to boys (presumably) on this board but to other grown women. So at least here we should be frank about these very real problems instead of handwaving them away with ‘it’s all in how you raise them’ or (even worse) ‘girls are just as bad!’

How is it any more unfair that the one who doesn’t want another gets the final say than the one who wants to try a bunch of old wives tales to satisfy her own, somewhat selfish, needs?

You would give anything for a good girl, really says it all!

It doesn't work like that.

Don't have another child, if it's a boy they will know they were only conceived in the hope they were a girl. Not nice.

You are overly optimistic. Parents can soften the edges, but anyone with multiple children knows that you ‘discover’ more than ‘direct’ your child.

I think you are massively underestimating the role of parenting here.
I think that the environment a child is brought up in, the influences of parents, school, childcare, friends etc does far more than 'soften the edges'.

I don’t think you’re a bad person for wanting a third child or hoping for a girl after having 2 boys. This is coming from someone who has had miscarriages and is pregnant with their first child. I’ve always had dreams about being a boy mum and I would of been happy with either gender (especially after losses) but had a preference for a boy which we were lucky enough to find out that we are expecting a boy.
I’ve always loved to have 3 children but DH wants 2. I understand that it is a bit of a hard pill to swallow but you can’t force someone to have a child that they do not want. Also, I’m not sure how statistics work out but I am sure having 2 boys mean that you are more likely to have another boy rather than a girl (I could be wrong)
Also even if you have a girl there is no guarantee that her personality or traits will match what you’re hoping for.
I don’t really know what advice to give x

What if you 3rd is twins or a severely disabled kid?

Are you willing to take on these risks?

I hate seeing men declaring they want a boy and seeing their disappointment when they find out they're having a girl. It's disgusting.
Of course it's not disgusting- I can tell you any initial disappointment is nothing to do with the actual child anyone has and they love the child they have.
It's ridiculous how angry people get about other people's preferences.
Did I want girls, yes- do I love and adore and am proud of my nephew, of course. Did my want for a girl affect you or your love for your sons, no.

But OP Is only having a third child in the hope for a girl, there would not be a third child if she already had a girl. It is more than a preference, she is saying that it's not the third child she wants, and if it is a girl that's great. She has stated if she had a girl, she would not be wanting a third child.

I'm sorry but this is a recipe for disaster IMO.

You’ve called your first two kids ‘demon’ and ‘nightmare’. Do you think a third child is really a good idea? You clearly don’t want a third boy.

Often girls are ‘better behaved’ because society expects so much more of little girls from day-fucking-dot. They’re expected to be quiet, kind, academic, the peacemakers and they’re always, always expected to be the ones to make allowances for the behaviour of others. It’s sick. Meanwhile the fucking bullshit mentality of ‘boys will be boys’ lives on. As this thread demonstrates.

@Namechanged2023
The fact that I have two boys means that there’s a bonus chance of having a girl if we were to have a third.

I think you’re more likely to have another boy if you already have two. I’ve seen so many families with 3+ sons and you just know the mum wanted to keep trying for a girl before giving up.

Also what ‘old fashioned methods’ are you talking about? It’s the man’s sperm that dictates if the baby will be a boy or a girl.