AIBU to think this is unacceptable of the school

[anerki101]

My DS has suspected ASC. We have been waiting ages for a meeting with the school to discuss - that's another thread!

But anyway, DS is 4. Started school in Septemeber. He is 100% toilet trained nothing day and night. Never has accidents. Accept at school. If he doesn't do his daily poo at home after school, then he poos his pants at school. Its becoming an almost daily occurance. This started at the beginning of December. In all that time the staff have only noticed ONCE that he has had an accident and changed him.

Today I found out DS had done a poo in his pants between 12 and 1. I picked him up at 4:15. He'd been sitting in his own poo for three to four hours.

AIBU to think this is totally unacceptable?

The school are aware of these accidents. I have had several discussions with his teacher about preventing, etc. Nothing has worked so far but the biggest issue is that they aren't noticing he's had an accident and leaving him to sit in it all day.

Goodness it is worrying that a teacher can have such little compassion.

He said that the toilets aren’t pretty, could he what would make them pretty?

I’m hugely compassionate. It’s shit. We are failing them. If you agree, write to your MP.

My dd has wet herself a few times at school since starting, she’s always changed! I do think she tells the teacher though… but YANBU! Not on, poor kid.

This is very hard, but you need to accept it’s a choice your child is making, he can go to the loo, at home, at relatives houses, even at school to pee. He is choosing to soil himself and sit in it all afternoon.

id escalate in school to see if they would be willing to proactively check him, clean and change him, if not, if you’re available, I’d go in at the end of lunch and at after noon break to do it.

I’m hugely compassionate. It’s shit. We are failing them. If you agree, write to your MP.

@Pumperthepumper this is so sad to read, can you tell me why? I haven’t had this impression from Dds school but of course the teachers may just be hiding problems.

Hi @anerki101 it really isn’t acceptable. I teach Reception and it is a busy, smelly place where Teachers and TAs are running ragged all day. Most of the first term is so exhausting as we settle the children in. Vomit, poop, farts and pee all day! However a smelly class is no excuse because the school management should be supporting their staff to ensure that they can effectively teach your child. If your child has a barrier to learning or his well-being is being impacted to the extent that he doesn’t feel comfortable enough to communicate his toileting needs then something needs to be done. Phonics and the rest will be out of the window until his basic individual needs are met. He isn’t school-ready but that is because Reception is about getting them school ready so that is ok.

As a Reception Teacher, it would make me feel incredibly sad to know that one of my verbal children was too worried to tell me their problem. I have had a few nervous starters and it is my job to adapt my classroom and environment to fit my cohort, not my ‘dream’ cohort but the one that I am actually teaching including those more nervous children. We make a conscious effort in the first term to remove target and remove barriers for children. Once the hurdle has been removed, many of them really flourish.

Sometimes it is as simple as the hand dryers are too noisy or issues with wiping. It is great that he comes home and talks to you about the issue, would he be happy to talk to staff with you supporting him? It seems that he is almost ‘saving it for you’😂 would you be able to go in at lunchtime and support him? There is always an adjustment and a good SENCO will be able to put this in place. If the Teacher/TA does not have the time or capacity to check or change him, the management need to make this happen. Speak to the Head/Senco/Teacher to work out a plan that can be put in place to support the staff.

Ultimately, it is a team effort and everybody needs to play the part and be willing to do so. If you sense reluctance when speaking to the Head/Senco, think about your child’s overall well-being at the school and whether it is the best place for him. He will be there for a long time so it has to be the right fit. Some of the standards of acceptable policy on this thread seem very low and it is a shame that this is considered to be normal. However, my school would be on this so please don’t be disheartened because there are schools that will support and value him. Go to management with your thoughts and suggestions and take it from there.

But surely we are responsible for the whole child, they aren’t going to be able to learn when they are sitting in shit. Trust me I get how overworked we all are. I only sat there once for 2 hours, the child in question was terrified of the toilets and wouldn’t go so had a similar problem to the OP. Once they realised it was actually ok, we had no more issues. Yes it took 2 hours but it was on the advice of the SENCo and it saved a huge amount of work and a huge amount of distress for the child.
Ive also administered midazolam for a child with epilepsy and spent 3 years looking after a T1 diabetic as well as being a class ta. That’s not “education” either but I still do as do many other TA’s. I just do it and get on with it not get frustrated at the toilet needs of a 4 year old.

You sound nasty. I don't think you should be working with children. He's not incontinent as the OP has said several times. He just has a problem with the school toilets. Even if he was incontinent, what extra training or funding is required to help a 4 year old to clean themselves up? It's not rocket science. It takes about 2 minutes to change a child. The other 27 don't need changing so I don't really see the relevance. If they all needed changing then clearly more staff would be needed!

I've only skimmed the thread and since I don't know about asc I'm ignoring that to look at something else.

I know he's told you they aren't pretty but can you find out a little more? Is it because they are all one colour and that sends him off-balance? Is it painted a brilliant white and he finds it too blinding? Try and see if there is something that might help, maybe a colourful plastic flower blutacked above the sinks?

My children's primary once asked all sahp and part-timers to come in and paint some classrooms. They provided the paint and sandpaper and the parents did the work. Would the school allow you to emulsion one cubicle a different, warmer colour?

Sadly some of us have utter twats for MPs that are more concerned with immigration and boats than serving their constituents. Writing to such an MP seems a pointless endeavour.

Funding. Cuts to SEN, EHP provision, Ed psychs, QIOs, PSAs and teacher salaries.

And if there isn’t a TA? Or if there’s two (or five?) kids with this level of need in the OP’s kid’s class?

What utter rubbish, they are required to make reasonable adjustments for children with disabilities, for instance he should have a educational plan etc and be assessed to see what his needs are. It is not OK for him to be left sitting in it all day

How do you know none of the others need changed?

Then it is the LA'S responsibility to ensure they have the resources they need to support their kids especially those with struggles

If you are compassionate as you claim give constructive advice on the EHCP process instead of being so nasty. I am an SEN parent, my son gets the highest banding of funding that is abused by the school and he is let down on a daily basis and yes I talk to my mp regularly about this. I am sick of teachers who think it’s acceptable to let children suffer.

Give it a go anyway. Start a petition for more SEN funding in your local area.

So the Op should……?

That's not the case in primary schools in my area. The teachers are probably overworked and stressed, yes, but the overall picture is one of well cared for, happy children who have their needs met. It's a permanent labour area so that probably makes a difference.

I an sure if you approached another local MP and explained yours is useless they would help ya

Why haven’t you moved schools, in that case?

Yes they are under staffed and under funded, so maybe you should take some responsibility for your own child? By your own admission you decided not to keep him back a year, he's told you he doesn't tell the teacher when he needs/has been to toilet and you don't think he would tell the truth when asked, so what exactly do you want the teacher to do? Look down his trousers every 4-5 minutes?

Take some responsibility for your child. Bring him home at lunch time, keep him back a year. Do something instead of expecting a stressed and burnt out teacher to do your parenting for you.

No justification or excuse whatsoever for leaving a child in their own faeces.

Email the SENCO and the head and ask for a proper meeting to discuss your concerns. Don't be fobbed off any longer.

It’s not acceptable that he’s left in his own faeces for hours but are you also aware that it’s very unlikely the teacher would be able to clean him up?
our school have a strict no helping wipe bums etc rule, I assumed this was the case for all? A child in my DS class has the same issue and although my son hasn’t mentioned it some other children have told their parents there is a smell. I struggle to see how the teachers could be missing this, if it’s left for hours then I can only imagine how strong it must be. I would be more inclined to think that they do know but aren’t willing/can’t change him. If that’s the case they should at least be contacting you so you can come and change him, he won’t be able to focus on anything other than the discomfort of sitting in wet and dirty clothes.