AIBU to think this is unacceptable of the school

[anerki101]

My DS has suspected ASC. We have been waiting ages for a meeting with the school to discuss - that's another thread!

But anyway, DS is 4. Started school in Septemeber. He is 100% toilet trained nothing day and night. Never has accidents. Accept at school. If he doesn't do his daily poo at home after school, then he poos his pants at school. Its becoming an almost daily occurance. This started at the beginning of December. In all that time the staff have only noticed ONCE that he has had an accident and changed him.

Today I found out DS had done a poo in his pants between 12 and 1. I picked him up at 4:15. He'd been sitting in his own poo for three to four hours.

AIBU to think this is totally unacceptable?

The school are aware of these accidents. I have had several discussions with his teacher about preventing, etc. Nothing has worked so far but the biggest issue is that they aren't noticing he's had an accident and leaving him to sit in it all day.

If you can't organise a meeting I think you should turn up and demand one and wait until someone is prepared to talk to you. I agree with other PPs you should arrange to take him home for lunch and get him into the habit of going at home.

What is so depressing on this thread is that some teachers just seem to be fatalistic about it and won't make an effort to access funding that is available via EHCPs. IPSEA, SOS SEN and Special Needs Jungle regularly report on the fact that children are being deprived of help they desperately require because some schools just don't seem aware of the legal criteria for EHCPs, let alone prepared to support parents in applying for them, despite the fact that it would enable them to do much more to support children with SEN.

Okay, that's fair but my sons teacher has a TA with her at all times and contact with the school office who can make the call on the teachers behalf.

How exactly do you "get" a child to take a shit? Yes you can sit them on the loo at regular intervals but that doesn't mean they'll go.

Especially if said child has already pooed that day. Or does 2-3 poos a day.

I can't shit on demand! It's clear OP's child wants to go after lunch.

Yes, and then at:

22.54
23.03
23.06

You wrote posts as to what is stopping you already picking him up at lunch!

I've been in this exact situation, as demonstrated on this thread many people including teachers don't realise that the school cannot refuse to deal with toileting issues that are due to a medical issue or SEN.

I would suggest letting him use a staff toilet, disabled toilet, potty or whatever works best for him at school. There's lots of advice online about how to get children comfortable using an unfamiliar toilet.

Once you've done that, get staff to take him to the toilet 10 mins after finishing lunch. Ask him to sit on toilet for 5 mins, use a timer, give a sticker whether he goes or not.

Get him to choose or make a card that he can show the teacher to indicate he needs the toilet or has done a poo. Praise every time he uses it.

I found that doctors were a bit useless as they assume the problem is constipation, it's more likely it's linked to his autism and toileting problems are very common with autism.

Which includes meeting all the needs of their charges. You can't teach a child effectively if he's distracted because his bottom is sore.

If schools are not prepared to support parents (which is not my experience at all) then surely that indicates a need for a specialised Parental EHCP Service? A helpful third party? Why isn’t that already in place?

No, it doesn’t. It’s my job to educate him. It’s not my job to make conditions perfect for him, in order to make that learning possible.

There are if you pay for it.

The govt, councils and schools don't want more children to have EHCPs. It's more work, more responsibility, more resources, more money.

Look, I really don't know what your problem is. I've even attached a screenshot as proof that I said I'd be happy to take my child home at lunch times.

I don't lack critical thinking skills or parenting ability. It's very rude of you to say this.

I have spoken to his class teacher. I've already said she's been good. Regardless of the shitting though, I still want a meeting with the Senco to discuss my sons possible ASC and talk about the observations they have carried out. The observations they said they'd set up a meeting to discuss.

I'm really not sure how you've come to the conclusion that I lack parenting ability but carry on.

@anerki101

I don't know if you missed my questions? Another poster has asked/done similar.

Um. My kid goes to a tiny old village school. There are years with less than 20 pupils in. Funding is not high. They have walkie talkies. I think your school may not be as normal as you think.

@Pumperthepumper are you an EYFS teacher? The EYFS curriulum places a huge focus on PSED, the unique child and meeting the individual needs of learners. As a Reception Teacher it is absolutely teaching to adapt your provision and your focus to suit your learners.

So I've imagined it when I've seen that provision in several primary school EHCPs then? I don't think so.

It's perfectly simple. Schools cannot refuse a child because he is not toilet trained. There are all sorts of both SEN and equality issues around leaving a child wet or soiled all day. It is fully within schools' remit to have a system in place for dealing with children who, for whatever reason, are unable to use the toilet, and it is in their interests for that to include toilet training. As posts on this thread have demonstrated, plenty of schools manage it. The fact that yours, for some reason, doesn't, does not mean that what it does is universal practice, fortunately.

@SnowlayRoundabout please stop quoting my posts and ignoring follow-ups. It’s disingenuous and it makes responding to you totally pointless.

Of course a parent needs permission to come into school and take her child out.

Sorry, I did miss it yes. That could be a possibility. I need to do some digging. Quite difficult as its hard to get DS to talk. He gets distracted or says he doesn't know or just ignores you if you ask too many questions

Some very extreme views here!

As mentioned earlier, my DS was the same (although not trained at home either) and we were lucky to have a supportive class TA who looked after him until he got the hang of it all.

Being not toilet trained at 4 is not necessarily a big issue for a child with ASD. It's far too early to be thinking he needs a special school, or even an EHCP - he sounds academically able and if it's just social and sensory concerns then schools are notoriously unhelpful at getting involved.

OP - you can apply for an EHCP directly through the local authority these days, so if you feel his needs are serious enough then have a google. Obviously it would be easier if the school supports/drives it - but you need to at least meet the SENCo first. From memory - you need a paediatrician's diagnosis first before anything like that can happen - but you really need to talk to the school now about any support you feel your son needs. Don't let them fob you off.

But also - don't let people panic you. Even if your son is diagnosed, and whether he gets an EHCP or not - he may well thrive in mainstream school. We got over the poo hurdle, and none of his classmates ever remembered him being smelly! We had other issues throughout primary, but children are very inclusive until about Year 4 - he never had any problems or bullying. Later on (he's now Year 10) the social issues became more of a problem, and he also struggles academically so life isn't always easy, but he's a great kid and does really well. The days of smelly pants (and lying down in front of buses, and meltdowns in shops........etc etc) are a dim and distant memory.....

Good luck with it all - and I hope you get this current problem sorted soon.

I had a similar issue with DD wetting and I did what you did here OP, ranted a bit, really I was just upset that my child was left uncomfortable for such a long period and I did not blame the teachers I was just angry at the situation and upset with myself that I wasn't there to help and that I had to send her back the next day thinking it could happen again.

I then went into school the next day and worked out a solution with her teacher and TA.

I have no idea why you are getting such a hard time here but I get it.

Thank you. This is exactly it.

Thank you! That's really helpful to know :)

Phoning parents for various purposes is part of office staff jobs. They don't have to hang about waiting for children to appear. They just need to be available to phone home when requested by the teachers if that is the arrangement that has been made to give any particular child necessary support.

You did notice that it's a virtual certainty that OP's child has ASC, didn't you?

OP has said she has been trying for ages to have a meeting with the school about this but it isn't happening and they are telling her that they are dealing with it. What else do you suggest she do? He shouldn't be deprived of his right to education just because he has a disability.

So if a child in your school is taken seriously ill, it would be a total gamble whether you can get someone in the office to phone home? Come off it.