AIBU to think this is unacceptable of the school

[anerki101]

My DS has suspected ASC. We have been waiting ages for a meeting with the school to discuss - that's another thread!

But anyway, DS is 4. Started school in Septemeber. He is 100% toilet trained nothing day and night. Never has accidents. Accept at school. If he doesn't do his daily poo at home after school, then he poos his pants at school. Its becoming an almost daily occurance. This started at the beginning of December. In all that time the staff have only noticed ONCE that he has had an accident and changed him.

Today I found out DS had done a poo in his pants between 12 and 1. I picked him up at 4:15. He'd been sitting in his own poo for three to four hours.

AIBU to think this is totally unacceptable?

The school are aware of these accidents. I have had several discussions with his teacher about preventing, etc. Nothing has worked so far but the biggest issue is that they aren't noticing he's had an accident and leaving him to sit in it all day.

Ah, it is you. With your golden-tinted ‘other schools’ that you have no direct experience with.

The SENCO, for one.

My son's nursery (attached to an infant school) has a 'no help' toilet policy, unless they have an 'agreed intimate care plan'.

Is that something OP's son needs?

It sounds like the OP's son has a specific issue (deliberately soiling himself), but is otherwise capable of learning and enjoying school. I think the school needs to work with OP to resolve this issue, but it is also OP's responsibility to try and shift the bowel movements to the evening. On school days, my son always has a poo after his dinner.

With regards to the wider debate regarding SEN kids in mainstream schools, I think I agree with the teachers arguing that it isn't their job to, effectively, play nurse to multiple children that require help with their medical conditions. They are employed to teach and I want my son to get the best education there is. That won't happen if they're constantly changing nappies, cleaning up accidents, etc.

I was walking near a river and saw a class of kids examining things on the river bank. Their teacher was giving instructions and the kids were gathered around paying attention. There was a seriously disabled (ASD?) boy sat 25m away with his TA playing with his fidget spinner. The boy looked to be non-verbal and very disabled (he reminded me of Katie Price's son, Harvey). I can't see what he could possibly be getting from mainstream education. He should be in a specialist school - but I presume it is cheaper to provide a TA and 'include' him at a standard school.

My son pulled down his pants and had a wee in the playground. We asked him why he'd done it and he said 'It's OK. None of the other children use the toilet'. There are some SEN kids in his class and he'd obviously picked up on their lack of toilet training. I'd really prefer for peer pressure to work the other way.

I don't get this? I've taken on board the advice and said I'd be happy to do anything including collect at lunchtime, go in to change him, even pull him out if the school recommended it. I even said I'd speak to his teacher in the morning to say about collecting him at lunch times so I really don't get how you've run away with the idea that I'm a shit parent who leaves parenting to burnt out teachers because I can't be bothered and I'm quite happy to let my boy sit in shit all day?

What should the teachers be doing?

The one that works 3 days a week til 4pm at my school of 420 children?

As the mum of a child with significant health issues, who I'm worried may start school in nappies (despite us delaying her), this thread has made me cry at the lack of compassion from those here who profess to be teachers.

OP I hope you find a way forward, it sounds incredibly tough.

You're getting a hard time from some stroppy posters on here. I've been there and it's so awful. I felt absolutely dreadful about it. We were at a complete loss.

I couldn't have picked up at lunchtime because of work, my child pooed at a different time each day, and even if I had picked up no way would I have got my DC back in for the afternoon. And the school would not have been ok with that.

My child is a number of years older yet still has very occasional accidents (once or twice a term). It has got better. You can look into a toileting plan, ask to speak to school nurse or contact GP. Get onto the head to speak to SENCO.

Honestly however I'd ask if you can apply for a reception place next September and take him out if I were you. It sounds like you don't work so you have the option.

You need to push the school for a meeting. He needs an intimate care plan so they can help
him get cleaned up. It maybe worth working out more what the issue with the toilets is. Are they unclean or just boring? Is cracking the poo at home going to solve things? I would become relentless about it. If parents left their kids in poo for 4 hours someone would soon get called.

Actually, what you said was wow that's good advice RE taking him home a lunch but I can't get a meeting with the school/but the teacher told me they'd sort it etc etc hence why I said you're more interested in making excuses.

My son held in his poo when he was a toddler and I had an app on my phone called poo goes home to pooland, it sounds ridiculous but genuinely helped. Free to download. It might also help to offer him a positive reward like sweets or something if he uses the toilets at school. But only if you know he's 100% holding it in on purpose and not having accidents due to communication problems with his teachers.

The school have a duty of care and should be having a meeting with you to discuss why this is happening and make a plan for how to help him. If he's still only four I would be tempted to pick him up at lunchtime for a while. If you suggest something like this to the teachers then it may spur them on to try and help him as well.

FGS, read the thread. You simply don't know what you're talking about, yet you've decided it's appropriate to come on here and be bloody unpleasant to the parent of a disabled child.

There is no valid reason why an academically able child shouldn't be allowed to start school at the same time as his NT peers. OP is quite prepared to come in to help, but she needs to know when she is needed. She's done all she reasonably can as a parent - her child is fully continent except that he can't cope with the school toilets, and no-one is bothering to talk to OP to discuss ways to deal with this and with his ASC generally. There are plenty of experienced people on here, including TAs, who have explained that they fully accept that this is a part of their teaching responsibility.

What attitude are you referring to? His actually class teacher has been great and chatting to me about solutions at pick up and drop off. I even told her it wasn't her fault when she apologised to me that he was soiled again and she didn't notice. I said the problem is that he won't tell you and he may even deny it if you ask.

My concern is simply for my son. Today he's been sitting in his own poo for four hours. I don't know what you're mean to do. But if my sons teacher smelt it, I'd like her to phone me so I can come in and deal with it. That's all. She's changed him once before when she did notice but I don't even expect that. Just let me know so I can deal with it. The child might deny it but if you can smell it you know it's there so call the parent so they can deal with it?

it is also OP's responsibility to try and shift the bowel movements to the evening.

How the actual fuck do you do this exactly

Thank you! This is exactly it. I just need to know when I'm needed so I can go into the school and deal with it.

And just all of this, honestly.

Don't you think the OP knows she isn't sending her kid to nursery?

Thank god you don't run services for vulnerable people. OPs child has a suspected condition that appears to be causing him to poo his pants regularly. Of course the school should be monitoring and regularly checking if he's clean. And of course it's obvious when someone has pooed their pants. No one's poo smells of roses.

The school are massively letting your child down OP. They should be regularly checking and calling you. I work in a primary school and this wouldn't happen in ours. I would be talking to the head and taking it higher if nothing changes. Your son is vulnerable and needs extra support, not chaffing and soreness from being left in soiled clothes all afternoon.

I could not call because I was alone with 30 kids.

Sit him on the toilet in the evening and get him to take a shit. If he needs encouragement, give him some sweets for a shit well done. Over time that will become the time he takes a shit.

During the school day children are the responsibility of the school. They can't demand that parents come in. Plenty of parents will be at work and unable to go into school, and that would not justify the school in leaving children sitting in their own faeces all day. If the school doesn't have the funding to sort this out then it is accepting that it cannot meet the child's needs and should have applied for an EHCP. The fact that OP is willing to come in to help is a massive bonus for this school, but they still won't make it work.

Teachers and TAs have no obligation to deal with poo - unless a intimate care plan is in place with agreed individuals. This is part of the problem. Which teacher willingly deals with poo accidents?

If you do keep him in school I suggest trying to get to bottom of school toilet issue, it could be sensory, or scary, and also teach him how to clean up after himself. Provide wipes and spare clothes and practised at home as much as you can.

I said at 9:32 I'd be happy to take him home at lunch times. Happy now?

I'm a grown woman and you couldn't bribe me with an all inclusive holiday in the Caribbean to take a poo when my body doesn't need to take one.

How do you expect a small child to poo on demand? 😂

Don't know about you but I need to go when I need to go. I can't shit on demand. It's ready when it's ready.

I've read the thread, thanks. It truly pains me that we live in a society with so many parents lacking basic critical thinking skills and parenting ability. This is actually a really, really simple problem to solve and I'm completely at a loss as to why everyone is pandering to the OP when she has listed excuses in response to any solutions (until a very recent post where she did a complete 360). OP can take her son home at lunchtime to poo for starters.

And actually, I would say that keeping the child behind a year would be beneficial. He's clearly not ready for school, regardless of how academic he is and it's not fair on him or his teachers to have him shitting himself every day with no sign of stopping. I would however advise that you read the thread, as OP has said several times that she's spoken at length to the teacher about it, so I'm not sure where your comment "no one is bothering to discuss it with the OP" is coming from. You've just pulled that out of your arse to suit your narrative.

@anerki101 it sounds like you are trying your best. It may have escalated after the Christmas break. Your next port of call is to schedule a meeting with the Senco as soon as possible. You can talk about some of the options suggested on this thread. Your child is entitled to be there and be taught and this is teaching in EYFS. You don’t need to pull him out or hold him back a year, you just need help with this one aspect of his learning and development.

This is not toilet training your child because you can’t be arsed, it is not a child choosing to be difficult. It is not pandering to his whims. This is a child with asc who is struggling with his toileting and needs all of the adults onboard to help him.