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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

AIBU to think this is unacceptable of the school

437 replies

anerki101 · 09/01/2023 20:19

My DS has suspected ASC. We have been waiting ages for a meeting with the school to discuss - that's another thread!

But anyway, DS is 4. Started school in Septemeber. He is 100% toilet trained nothing day and night. Never has accidents. Accept at school. If he doesn't do his daily poo at home after school, then he poos his pants at school. Its becoming an almost daily occurance. This started at the beginning of December. In all that time the staff have only noticed ONCE that he has had an accident and changed him.

Today I found out DS had done a poo in his pants between 12 and 1. I picked him up at 4:15. He'd been sitting in his own poo for three to four hours.

AIBU to think this is totally unacceptable?

The school are aware of these accidents. I have had several discussions with his teacher about preventing, etc. Nothing has worked so far but the biggest issue is that they aren't noticing he's had an accident and leaving him to sit in it all day.

OP posts:
Original poster
anerki101 · 09/01/2023 23:16

MrsSkylerWhite · 09/01/2023 23:14

“No, he's in such a state he needs a shower. After four hours you can imagine that the poo has crusted and stuck to him. It needs scrubbing off with hot soapy water. A packet of baby wipes and spare pants isn't going to cut it after four hours. And what, I'm supposed to do, change him on the backseat, poo everywhere whilst his class mates and their parents walk past? Cmon, try harder”

I don’t know what you mean by try harder. I have no agenda.

I would not leave my distressed child in that condition for a moment longer than necessary.

Neither would I. Obviously.

OP posts:
Teridavis · 09/01/2023 23:17

I mean there’s only so much teachers can do. It’s pretty strange that a 4 year old is actively choosing to shit himself.

if I was in your position I would be doing more to understand why he is doing this and have a firmer conversation about not doing this. If it continues I would either be taking him out of school/seeking professional help or seeing if he could have a helper at school to even sit with him during lessons until it stops (although I don’t know if that’s even something that can be provided for this particular situation)

either way it needs to be nipped in the bud as these sort of things are remembered and bullying may start. Ive got a friend from school (I’m 28) and to this day whenever their name is mentioned their is always a “god they used to stink in school” comment.

Original poster
anerki101 · 09/01/2023 23:17

Pumperthepumper · 09/01/2023 23:15

Why? Just say you’re doing it and do it. You don’t need permission.

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Yes, ma'am.

OP posts:
Pumperthepumper · 09/01/2023 23:18

SnowlayRoundabout · 09/01/2023 23:15

How difficult would it be to get someone in the office to do this?

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Depends. Could be very easy, could be very difficult. Depends on staff levels (including office staff, many of whom leave at lunchtime), access to communication to the office and the number of kids in the class. Plus the number of kids in the class with toilet issues.

Pumperthepumper · 09/01/2023 23:18

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Melmimi28 · 09/01/2023 23:19

Autumndays123 · 09/01/2023 22:47

Yes they are under staffed and under funded, so maybe you should take some responsibility for your own child? By your own admission you decided not to keep him back a year, he's told you he doesn't tell the teacher when he needs/has been to toilet and you don't think he would tell the truth when asked, so what exactly do you want the teacher to do? Look down his trousers every 4-5 minutes?

Take some responsibility for your child. Bring him home at lunch time, keep him back a year. Do something instead of expecting a stressed and burnt out teacher to do your parenting for you.

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Completely agree with this ! I’m wondering how many times the op has been in after a lunchtime to check if he needs cleaning ? Instead of just moaning he’s been left in it ? If he won’t tell the teachers what are they supposed to do ?

I get a one off accident that a child can tell them has happened and the kids would get assistance cleaning it up. But every day the teacher having to try and constantly sniff out for poo and monitor it. It’s not their job and a child that is doing this every day probably should be picked up before this happens by the parent. Not a teachers job for an every day occurrence.
Especially in a mainstream school where there is so many other children to attend to.

Original poster
anerki101 · 09/01/2023 23:20

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

It's not bollocks. You're just incredibly argumentative and I'm not sure what else I'm supposed to say to you at this point.

OP posts:
Nameneeded · 09/01/2023 23:20

Pumperthepumper · 09/01/2023 20:26

You need to get him to a GP then. It’s not the school’s place to clean up your kid.

I really hope you're not a teacher. If you are, this would explain a lot about how disabled children are treated in mainstream schools. Please do try to educate yourself or develop some empathy. Preferably both.

Beveren · 09/01/2023 23:20

Pumperthepumper · 09/01/2023 21:38

I send another kid to fetch the janitor OR another teacher to sit with the class.

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Do you not have a mobile?

Autumndays123 · 09/01/2023 23:20

anerki101 · 09/01/2023 23:15

I quite like your attitude. It's a bit sexy.

Of course, a stranger on the internet can say with utter confidence that they know far better than me about parenting my child.

His father has his uses, yes.

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Could dad take over this kind of stuff then? I'm just trying to be honest.

I'm not really sure why you're making out that I'm acting like I 'know more' than you. It's not about that. It's actually a really simple concept:

  • Your son shits himself every single day at lunchtime

  • You know he shits himself every day at lunch and you do nothing about it.

  • Your reasons range from "oh well I can't get a meeting with the school", to "the teacher told me they'd sort it". So, despite the fact that he STILL shits himself EVERY DAY, you do absolutely nothing about it? You don't go in at lunch to change him, you don't go in at lunch to take him home to the toilet...you do nothing?

Wow, just wow. Poor poor child.

I'm sure you think that you're witty and rising above everything by calling me babes and sexy, but you're actually embarrassing yourself. Please stop. No amount of babes/hunnie/sugartits will distract from the fact that you are doing your son a disservice.

Eyerollcentral · 09/01/2023 23:21

@anerki101 you are in a trying situation but you are coming across as incredibly dismissive and a aggressive. For goodness sake explain to your son you are going to collect him at lunchtime to take him home to use the toilet. Tell the teacher tomorrow morning you are doing this and why. Sounds to me that he not ready for school. You are unbelievable to expect teaching or any other staff to check a 4 year old for faeces. In terms of safeguarding apart from anything else this would be demanding re staff numbers

Pumperthepumper · 09/01/2023 23:22

Nameneeded · 09/01/2023 23:20

I really hope you're not a teacher. If you are, this would explain a lot about how disabled children are treated in mainstream schools. Please do try to educate yourself or develop some empathy. Preferably both.

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That’s exactly my point though. Why are kids with this level of need being forced into a system that can’t meet their needs? And I’m deliberately using the word ‘can’t’ there.

Pumperthepumper · 09/01/2023 23:24

Beveren · 09/01/2023 23:20

Do you not have a mobile?

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Is this a serious question? School staff shouldn’t have their personal devices out in the classroom, because of safeguarding.

But aside from that, is your solution that teachers should be using their own money to phone the main switchboard to the school office to then contact a parent?

Haffiana · 09/01/2023 23:24

Autumndays123 · 09/01/2023 23:20

Could dad take over this kind of stuff then? I'm just trying to be honest.

I'm not really sure why you're making out that I'm acting like I 'know more' than you. It's not about that. It's actually a really simple concept:

  • Your son shits himself every single day at lunchtime

  • You know he shits himself every day at lunch and you do nothing about it.

  • Your reasons range from "oh well I can't get a meeting with the school", to "the teacher told me they'd sort it". So, despite the fact that he STILL shits himself EVERY DAY, you do absolutely nothing about it? You don't go in at lunch to change him, you don't go in at lunch to take him home to the toilet...you do nothing?

Wow, just wow. Poor poor child.

I'm sure you think that you're witty and rising above everything by calling me babes and sexy, but you're actually embarrassing yourself. Please stop. No amount of babes/hunnie/sugartits will distract from the fact that you are doing your son a disservice.

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I wonder if you imagine that you are anything other than bullying an OP who is trying to do the best for her child.

Stop putting the fucking boot in. Who the hell do you think you are?

Eyerollcentral · 09/01/2023 23:24

Pumperthepumper · 09/01/2023 23:22

That’s exactly my point though. Why are kids with this level of need being forced into a system that can’t meet their needs? And I’m deliberately using the word ‘can’t’ there.

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You are completely correct, it’s not fair to anyone involved

teacher45646 · 09/01/2023 23:24

Beveren · 09/01/2023 23:20

Do you not have a mobile?

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We can’t use our personal mobiles in school ffs…

SnowlayRoundabout · 09/01/2023 23:26

Pumperthepumper · 09/01/2023 21:47

Very unlikely to get an EHPS place then.

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The criterion for getting an EHCP is basically that the child's needs cannot be met within normal mainstream resources. There is no requirement that the child be demonstrated to be violent or to have severe needs. If this school is unable to sort out OP's child's toileting needs within their normal resources then there is a clear case for an EHCP; his reluctance to go into school is also a massive danger signal. They should have applied some time ago.

Autumndays123 · 09/01/2023 23:27

Haffiana · 09/01/2023 23:24

I wonder if you imagine that you are anything other than bullying an OP who is trying to do the best for her child.

Stop putting the fucking boot in. Who the hell do you think you are?

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Are you joking? OP came on her for advice and she's been given excellent advice which is extremely simple to carry through. Despite this she's listed a whole list of reasons of why she can't possibly do anything herself. Reasons that are actually quite ridiculous. Why is anything I've said bullying? It's factually correct and you cannot seriously say that OP is trying her best in this situation, because it's there in black and white that she's not. Would you leave your child to sit in shit for several hours a day, every single day? I can't honestly think of a parent I know who would do that.

SnowlayRoundabout · 09/01/2023 23:27

davegrohll · 09/01/2023 21:51

We're still battling to get an ehcp in year 3!! He went into school diagnosed as nursery referred him almost straight away! Still didn't make a blind bit of difffence ! Because he isn't disruptive etc he's just left to get on with it, even though that means he doesn't do anything as he needs constant 121 to access the curriculum !

Did you appeal when it was refused?

bumblenbean · 09/01/2023 23:27

I’m sorry OP, this sounds really tough and it’s appalling that the SENCO hasn’t even made contact with you yet.

DS is 5 and recently diagnosed with ASD- we’re very lucky to have a lovely school who are making a real effort to help DS develop and integrate. Luckily for us he hasn’t had any continence issues but I can imagine it’s heartbreaking to collect your son day after day and finding him soiled.

It’s interesting that he’ll do a pee at school but not poo- has he explained what the difference is (given his reasons for not doing poos there is them not being ‘pretty’ enough?) DS hates hand driers - could it be something like that, eg if he’s in there long enough to do a poo he’s more likely to hear people using the hand driers?

I hope you find a solution - it does sound like the best bet for now is to go in at lunchtime, but I would definitely press the school office to set up a call/ meeting with the SENCO.

is he on a referral pathway? If you’re on a huge waiting list it might be worth seeking a private assessment if you’re able to. Having a diagnosis can pave the way to getting more support.

Pumperthepumper · 09/01/2023 23:28

SnowlayRoundabout · 09/01/2023 23:26

The criterion for getting an EHCP is basically that the child's needs cannot be met within normal mainstream resources. There is no requirement that the child be demonstrated to be violent or to have severe needs. If this school is unable to sort out OP's child's toileting needs within their normal resources then there is a clear case for an EHCP; his reluctance to go into school is also a massive danger signal. They should have applied some time ago.

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I’ve just realised you’re the poster who quoted a heap of my posts on the last thread about schools being unable to meet SEN needs, and then didn’t respond to any of my subsequent replies. Is this going to be more of the same?

What do you think the job of ‘teacher’ is if not ‘to teach’?

Original poster
anerki101 · 09/01/2023 23:29

Look, I didn't even realise taking him home at lunch time could be an option until this thread. Naive of me, perhaps. Now it's been suggested, I will 100% do this.

This started in November, not daily but that's when it started. The first option we tried was using different toilets in the school. That didn't work. Then we tried regularly reminding and prompting, etc. That also didn't work. Since then, the problem has worsened and it's started to happen daily. Today was the worst it's been. Hence me coming here for advice. I know he normally goes at some point after he's eaten lunch but that could be any time, even once he's home. Today, he told me he went just after lunch.

I haven't deliberately left my child sitting in his own poo. His teacher and I have been exploring options to see if we could resolve it. Since then it's escalated and particularly today, I starred to grow concerned that they weren't noticing. And now I'm here asking for advice.

This concern coupled with the fact I keep getting fobbed off when trying to get a meeting to discuss his potential ASC left me worried.

OP posts:
ijustneedanamefgs · 09/01/2023 23:31

You need to try and figure out why he won’t use the toilets. I know he says it’s not pretty but try to go deeper. With my son it was because of the noise, and him being afraid someone else would need the toilet while he was there. He was painfully shy. Of course he couldn’t voice this in the early days. He wet himself so many times in p1. He was allowed to leave during class to go and didn’t need to ask.
Tbh he’s 13 now and has never been comfortable using a toilet in school. He runs on every day needing the toilet and he suffers awful constipation at times. He has asd though wasn’t diagnosed until age 10.

SnowlayRoundabout · 09/01/2023 23:31

Pumperthepumper · 09/01/2023 22:20

Who is paying for the walkie talkies?

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If the school is so poor it cannot afford a walkie talkie let alone the time to support a disabled child, then it should be applying for EHCPs to cover the extra funding required for the right support. Other schools manage it, it's really depressing that it never seems to occur to your school.

teacher45646 · 09/01/2023 23:33

anerki101 · 09/01/2023 23:29

Look, I didn't even realise taking him home at lunch time could be an option until this thread. Naive of me, perhaps. Now it's been suggested, I will 100% do this.

This started in November, not daily but that's when it started. The first option we tried was using different toilets in the school. That didn't work. Then we tried regularly reminding and prompting, etc. That also didn't work. Since then, the problem has worsened and it's started to happen daily. Today was the worst it's been. Hence me coming here for advice. I know he normally goes at some point after he's eaten lunch but that could be any time, even once he's home. Today, he told me he went just after lunch.

I haven't deliberately left my child sitting in his own poo. His teacher and I have been exploring options to see if we could resolve it. Since then it's escalated and particularly today, I starred to grow concerned that they weren't noticing. And now I'm here asking for advice.

This concern coupled with the fact I keep getting fobbed off when trying to get a meeting to discuss his potential ASC left me worried.

I am a teacher dealing with a child with toiletting issues (daily wetting and occasional pooing). I would be so upset if the parents had the attitude you are showing. It is our job to figure out the crux of the issue - not for the parents to park blame. I had a poo accident today. I smelled it and asked if they needed the toilet. They insisted they didn’t. I didn’t have another adult in the room. What am I meant to do?