To have expected subject specialists at secondary school

[notsallyrooney]

My children (Y7 and Y9) have the same teacher - one for science, one for geography. The teacher is an English teacher.

They seem to be a great teacher, have behaviour under control and both my kids are really happy with this set up. But is it weird/worrying that they aren't a subject specialist (or, indeed, teaching just one subject so able to focus on that)? Or is this just how it is now with (state, comprehensive) secondary schools?

The school have a number of vacancies they are clearly struggling to fill, so I assume they have had to be creative with staffing and totally appreciate that it's all a bit of a nightmare in the education sector at the moment. Just wondered how normal this is and whether we should be worried?

I'm afraid it's not uncommon now for schools to be unable to recruit subject specialists. Teacher recruitment and retention is in a terrible state and yes, everyone should be worried.

These days YABU. There simply aren't the staff. There should be, but there aren't and what few specialists there are left are leaving the profession in droves along with staff of all types. It's shit.

My PE teacher qualified in English and my maths teacher qualified in business when I was at school but I think that's just their initial degrees before their PGCEs.

Do you know for sure the teacher doesn't have additional training in the subjects they're teaching?

We (teachers) once we have QTS are, technically, qualified to teach anything.

This is what happens when people leave in droves because pay and conditions are atrocious.

The only solution here is to support stike action and those who can bring themselves to stick around in the profession.

There are no specialist subject teachers available. Particularly in science. We typically coopt humanities teachers for science, or cut down on PE provision and use them

I didn't vote, because YANBU to want specialist teachers, but YABU to expect them in the UK, in either state or independent schools

Quite common nowadays.
So many teachers leaving. The Facebook group I'm in called 'life after teaching' has 112,000 members.
It's dire.

Unfortunately that is now the norm in most state schools due to lack of teachers and challenges with teacher recruitment. At some schools teachers can be teaching multiple subjects with zero subject knowledge apart from their lessons plans. It is atrocious and our kids deserve so much more.

& then I guess my next question is - aside from supporting teachers strikes (100%) - as a parent, what can I actually do?!

Interesting this happens in independent school as well, I didn't realise that!

Interesting this happens in independent school as well, I didn't realise that! (Sorry double posted this, I don't really ever post on here, more of a compulsive lurker.)

Vote for a party that values education ie NOT conservative/move into the private sector as we have done for DD/pay for private subject tutors if your child shows a natural ability or interest in a particular subject.

Very common but at KS3 not necessarily a disaster provided they are good teachers, do their prep and follow the schemes of work set by the head of dept. More of an issue at GCSE / A level but again, depending on the subjects and the individual concerned, it doesn't have to be awful. I can and have taught three subjects up to A level, related but not the same. I'm a good classroom teacher, know how kids learn and take the time to learn what each syllabus, exam paper etc requires. Schools cannot magic people up out of the air. Having said that, I would refuse to do maths, science or languags as I would be totally out of my depth. Humanities, English, Politics etc I could do.

In Year 7, I wouldn't worry. I would expect someone with a decent Geography A-level to be able to teacher Year 7 and 8. By Year 9 I'd be more concerned.
Can you afford a tutor for your older child?

It hasn't happened in our independent school. All subject teachers have MSc/MA in that subject as a minimum (there are several with PhDs) as well as their teaching quals.

I also think that there are two types of non specialist teacher: the type who are happy and feel they are capable of teaching that subject and the type who do not feel they are capable, but are timetabled to do it anyway (and I guess a third sub-section of the first group who don't realise they're not capable because they don't know the subject!).

I am the first group (and hopefully not the subset...), I trained as a German teacher and now teach maths. But obviously I never teach anything I can't do, because how could I do that?!? But I have also spent time teaching PSHE and I never felt capable or competent at that. And my subject knowledge improves all the time (in maths) because practice makes perfect and because I want to be good at it and because I'm doing it willingly/happily.

I did that in the last election but it doesn't seem to have worked ;)

For your year 9 child:

Find out what exam boards the school uses for each subject, download the specification. Buy the exam board specific text books for each subject , or as many as you can afford. Ideally, these should have questions to practice, and answers to check. Get your child to be looking up the work covered on the specification, and noting any strengths and gaps, and using the text books to reinforce what is covered, and fill any gaps.

This is good for any child, but particularly KS4 children in schools with staffing problems ( more than half of UK schools have vacancies they cant fill at any given moment)

For your year 7 child, just encourage all work set to be done well

Having an involved parent taking an interest is actually, statistically, more important than the teacher, you may be surprised to hear, so your children clearly have that advantage

To add some context. I was a science teacher. In my PGCE cohort, there were 76 of us training to become teachers. 34 we’re doing an SKE, which means they didn’t have a degree in science. Only 36 passed and were awarded QTS. Only four are still teaching. Four. I left and within three years, I was on a six figure salary and I’m not relentlessly abused. We have no teachers.

I had to teach geography, history and religious education and my specialism was in none of those!

Thank you, this is reassuring! Their teacher seems great and I don't have huge concerns, but I wondered how common this is or how important subject knowledge necessarily is..

My son is in Year 11 and doing GCSE Food Prep and BTEC Construction. He's not had a consistent, qualified teacher for either subject since September. He currently has random supply teachers. At this stage he might just about pass the BTEC. I know the school are doing everything to recruit a teacher but have failed so far. I'm at a loss as to what we can do about it.

God I'm amazed at this.

I'm in Ireland, very significant staff retention issues too, especially with cost-of-living increases.

However, it's really uncommon - actually I haven't heard it at all, not a teacher but work at a university that offers teaching degrees - to have teachers with no subject qualification in their primary degree teaching a subject. It's far more common for someone with only say, first year university Maths to be landed with a Maths class in senior cycle (ages 16 - 18) which is never great.

There is also a tendency to land teachers with the 'extra' subjects like SPHE / Religion without them having any core knowledge.

So maybe not wildly different to OP's scenario now I come to think of it!

Perhaps the teacher is specialised in other subjects other than English but hasnt been teaching it recently?

My dd is yr 13 so sitting her a levels this year.
My first question when she gets home is how was your day?
My second, did you have a teacher in all your lessons today?
One of her teachers (new to the school) is teaching themselves the A level subject at the same time as they've never taught it v
before.

The school are doing the best they can with limited resources.

And to be honest, as a student I always appreciated a good teacher. Surely Y7-Y9 science or geography isnt rocket science and I would certainly prefer a good teacher with common knowledge of science/geography to a good scientist who cant teach.