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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To have expected subject specialists at secondary school

140 replies

notsallyrooney · 06/01/2023 11:55

My children (Y7 and Y9) have the same teacher - one for science, one for geography. The teacher is an English teacher.

They seem to be a great teacher, have behaviour under control and both my kids are really happy with this set up. But is it weird/worrying that they aren't a subject specialist (or, indeed, teaching just one subject so able to focus on that)? Or is this just how it is now with (state, comprehensive) secondary schools?

The school have a number of vacancies they are clearly struggling to fill, so I assume they have had to be creative with staffing and totally appreciate that it's all a bit of a nightmare in the education sector at the moment. Just wondered how normal this is and whether we should be worried?

OP posts:
Malbecfan · 06/01/2023 17:32

@twistyizzy thank you for your eminently sensible posts.

I am now in my 29th year of teaching. I have taught 3 different A level subjects plus an unrelated GNVQ and taught at least 5 other subjects in both private and state schools.

The pressure from parents, the arrogance of their offspring and the bullying of SLT are my reason for leaving the private sector. It was awful. But I have also encountered bullying SLT in the state sector. The things that make my job impossible are the endless bullshit from government, the ever-diminishing pay, and the constant belittling of my work from people, including often on MN. I work in a lovely school where behaviour is pretty good. I can't remember the last time I had to do anything more than remind a kid to tuck their shirt in.

An excellent degree from a prestigious institution does not make a good teacher. I was taught by an Oxford Maths graduate who mumbled into the board for a year and explained nothing. By comparison, her colleague from one of the so-called "comedy" universities from upthread was a brilliant teacher and I excelled.

The stress of the job, the poor pay, the worsening conditions and lack of respect are why teachers are leaving in droves. My school is always oversubscribed and people move to the area to be able to send their kids there. Even then, we have struggled to recruit because house prices here are now beyond the means of teachers. Recruiting admin staff is even harder. We have been asked what other subjects we have any expertise in, just in case. It's very sad, but this is what happens when the Tories are in power for an extended period.

Nimbostratus100 · 06/01/2023 17:32

and you had to answer

Breadcrumbsforall · 06/01/2023 17:34

Nimbostratus100 · 06/01/2023 14:21

But that is what I mean, they are not more highly qualified than the state school staff. It will be the same people, moving between the two types of schools, locally

I've not commented on state schools at all!!!!! I've simply commented about my experience of 3 local indie schools. I've got no idea what qualifications the teachers in the state schools near me have as I have nothing to do with them. Nor do I have any assumptions, either good or bad, about them.

Needtoseethatbiggerpicture · 06/01/2023 17:36

Christ on a bike. Teachers on here have been shouting about this, literally for years.

I know the school are doing everything to recruit a teacher but have failed so far. I'm at a loss as to what we can do about it

stop voting Tory?

recognise that if we go out on strike, we’re doing it for the sake of your children’s education?

Again, it is the SAME PEOPLE! Teachers move between the two sectors freelyThere is not two separate pools of teachers!

people like to think that education in the private sector is better. I teach part time e as a specialist in 2 schools, one state, one independent. I am a very average teacher. I work hard. My results are good. I have a good degree. I am not the best teacher by any stretch of anyone’s imagination. But I am the best the independent school could get, after having had a string of not so great supply teachers.

DuncanBiscuits · 06/01/2023 17:36

You’re not being unreasonable to be worried. Teaching is in a right mess - and I say that as a teacher who no longer works in mainstream for that reason.

I know that makes me part of the problem, but until conditions improve, there’s no way I’d work in mainstream again.

OhIdoLike2bBesideTheSeaside · 06/01/2023 17:49

I have a PGCE but the thought of teacher again - no thanks!!

I sometimes mark exam papers for extra money but the idea of teaching fills me with dread 😟

Nobody I trained with teaches apart from 4 people out of a group of about 30 of us and they're all looking for a way out, it's just relentless and incredibly stressful.

I worked in a college doing English as a second language and business studies but they wanted me to do physics and all sorts I said no I'm not doing that I don't have the relevant experience (not to mention looking ridiculous when the students have a question and letting them down) and the principal was awful and because I said no he tried to make life awkward for me and so I just left and went temping and I've never looked back it was dire 15 years ago!

Nimbostratus100 · 06/01/2023 17:54

OhIdoLike2bBesideTheSeaside · 06/01/2023 17:49

I have a PGCE but the thought of teacher again - no thanks!!

I sometimes mark exam papers for extra money but the idea of teaching fills me with dread 😟

Nobody I trained with teaches apart from 4 people out of a group of about 30 of us and they're all looking for a way out, it's just relentless and incredibly stressful.

I worked in a college doing English as a second language and business studies but they wanted me to do physics and all sorts I said no I'm not doing that I don't have the relevant experience (not to mention looking ridiculous when the students have a question and letting them down) and the principal was awful and because I said no he tried to make life awkward for me and so I just left and went temping and I've never looked back it was dire 15 years ago!

A pretty typical story

Nimbostratus100 · 06/01/2023 17:55

I hope you are doing something that makes you happy now @OhIdoLike2bBesideTheSeaside

MrsHamlet · 06/01/2023 17:55

It's incredibly common.
You should be concerned.

ArseInTheCoOpWindow · 06/01/2023 17:59

I think my most awful experience was being forced to teach electronics.

OhmygodDont · 06/01/2023 18:05

Our school have quite a few still.

Personally in friends all my actual specialties teacher friends all quit actually teaching, one does work as a support now but none want the full job anymore.

clary · 06/01/2023 18:11

Not RTFT sorry OP but yy you and everyone should be worried. I am selfishly glad I don't have any children of secondary age any more tbh. But I feel for those who do. And for the teachers.

Tbf teaching two subjects esp in KS3 is not unusual and it sounds as tho the teacher has a good relationship with the students and can manage them well. Geography and English is common IME (and of course the teacher may well have A level geography for example). A colleague of mine who taught MFL had a year where she was also teaching history to a year 7 class.

The science is obviously more of a concern tho, again, maybe part of the teacher's background. I realise an A level taken 10 years ago doesn't make you a subject specialist but schools have to take what they can get and often, sadly, focus the specialist teachers on exam classes.

I have left classroom teaching tho I still tutor, as I love the actual teaching, and I have never felt better. even now, in a role where my commute is 45 mins each way and I work 9-5.30, my wellbeing is still much higher. Teaching is in a bad way in England and i would be wary of encouraging any child of mine to consider it, which is a sad sate of affairs.

and then you read a comment (as I did the other day on a bbc story about Sunak's maths plan "well all the teachers start at 9 ad finish at 3.30 don't they and have nothing to do all day except tell some kids some stuff that they [the teacher] know" hmmmm yes OK.

ArseInTheCoOpWindow · 06/01/2023 20:27

I left teaching in 2021. People were leaving in droves then. I know a lot more have left since the .

cantkeepawayforever · 06/01/2023 21:05

Shhh but I have one of those top degrees from Oxbridge and I teach .....in state school.

Shh even more - ditto, including being Dr Can’t in a STEM subject but I teach in state PRIMARY.

BoringLittleMe · 07/01/2023 08:39

Redhotchllisteppa · 06/01/2023 12:47

Yes if the teacher teaching A Level maths has a maths degree then they should be paid more if we want specialists to teach our children. Market forces are at play and a good maths graduate could earn more than teaching pays so if specialists are wanted/needed they should be paid accordingly.

Ah, silly me. There was me thinking that teaching the foundations of subjects like Maths was an important part of the education cog.

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