Page 16 | Lodger cranks up heating to 25

Mumskisail · 2023-01-05T10:37:59+00:00

My partner left a few years ago and I had time off work for burnout and now in a less stressful (lower paid) role so on a tight income. I rent 2 rooms to help cover my mortgage and bills (about 40%). The house is heated to 18-21 degrees depending on the room / personal preference, using Nest thermostats (called TRVs) on each radiator. It is lowered at 11pm until 5.30am, meaning it's warm for about an hour after going to bed and it heats up for a few hours before the lodgers get up. One lodger is very happy with this and prefers a cooler room so sometimes turns it down. But the other constantly overrides this and heats his room to 25. When I've tried to speak to him about it he answers his door in a tshirt and is only wearing normal socks. The rest of us have warm clothes, slippers and big fleece hoodies on winter evenings, and use fleece blankets to stay cosy on the sofa. We seem to be in a battle of wills. He goes along with my suggested times and temperatures in discussion but has done everything including claiming his radiator and the TRV don't work, disconnecting the TRV but trying to make it look as though it's connected, saying it won't connect and pulling the little pin out with a pair of pliers to force the heating on. He leaves it on all night. The thermostat when it's reading says 25-26. The other issue in this old Victorian house is that the heating pumping out all night causes banging in the pipes and keeps myself and the other lodger awake, or wakes us up in the night. So we prefer lots of layers and a quiet night unless we're in a cold patch. I've offered him extra duvets and blankets (his looks thin) and a hot water bottle but he refuses. I've asked him to discuss the times he wants the heating on and to talk about the heating. He says the temperature reading is wrong so I gave him a wireless thermostat which showed the same temperature as the TRV and showed it was correct. I've explained about the increasing cost of gas and showed him my bills. I've showed him the temperatures in the rest of the house and that we are comfortable. This is the second winter we are having these issues. Last year his sister died so I just kept my mouth shut and left him to it but I felt really unhappy. Do I just suck it up, winter will be over soon and I'm not making a loss. Or do I tell him it's not acceptable and ask him to leave? Or is it better the devil you know, this is the only issue. A friend suggested a locking cover to go over the TRV, I'm so irritated it's tempting but is that really ethical? And anyway would he then just get an electric heater? I don't go into his room and I would never snoop. He's a 44 year old man having to rent a room and it must be his sanctuary and private space. Do I just let him win the battle and chill out?

Southeastdweller · 05/01/2023 18:44

billy1966 · 05/01/2023 18:05

23 degrees?

Don't be silly.

He touches it again and he's out.

Do not allow this CF intimidate you.

Any messing, just insist he leaves.

My hearing is a bit creaky at night so I never have it on, even in cold weather.

We have electric blankets and 15 tog goose duvets, absolutely no need for the heat on in the middle of the night.

I like a cold bedroom anyway, sleep better in a fresh room and most of the year have a window open.

Delighted to read you are getting rid.

I eonder how easy he will find it to meet someone as accommodating.

How is OP being more accommodating than the average LL? Her lodger will likely find something soon, and if he comes across a LL who, like the OP, doesn’t want the heating on at 25 °. All he has to do is buy a heater. There’s plenty of people out there who need help with their mortgage repayments.

Flapjackquack · 05/01/2023 18:48

BradfordGirl · 05/01/2023 18:33

@Flapjackquack I think it is reasonable for a lodger to be able to be in their room without wearing a fleecy hoodie and having a blanket over them to keep warm. OP has agreed to increase the heating in the room to 21 degrees which is fine. It sounds like it was previously at 18 degrees which is unfair.
My bedroom temperature is low but I only sleep there. Lodgers usually hang out in their bedrooms after work and the OPs lodger is doing this. So it needs to be a reasonable temperature.

I love that this whole thread you’ve casually ignored the parts where the lodger continually cranked it up to 25, took pliers to the heating system, lied to the OP. You can try and pretend all you like that the guy will be all reasonable now that it’s 21 but what are the chances eh.

BradfordGirl · 05/01/2023 18:56

@Flapjackquack If the lodgers room really was at 25 degrees. I take that with a pinch of salt as OP also said 18 to 21 degrees and then revealed she had allowed the lodger to turn the heating up to 21 degrees - so it was clearly below 21 degrees before. She does not know what the temperature was in his room, she is guessing.

MsRosley · 05/01/2023 19:33

HotChoxs · 05/01/2023 13:14

What if he was subjected to a level of trauma that doesn't allow him to do this? I've rented to autistic people who have done similar things. Are you advocating discrimination now, or does that only apply to businesses that operate in this sphere?

Show quote history

You just cannot be serious, @Calphurnia88 In all the times I've been hanging out on MN, this is literally the most batshit crazy response I have ever read.

MsRosley · 05/01/2023 19:35

Sorry @Calphurnia88 - that was mean't for @HotChoxs

ivykaty44 · 05/01/2023 20:14

BradfordGirl. it doesn't matter what was happening before, the heating at 21 degrees will not be deemed a problem by the private rental department - having cold water showers is more their line of mediating between landlord and lodger, or having a lodgers room ransacked or eating food the lodger brought home and placed int he fridge.

Calphurnia88 · 05/01/2023 20:17

MsRosley · 05/01/2023 19:35

Sorry @Calphurnia88 - that was mean't for @HotChoxs

It's quite alright, although I am traumatised now and can't seem to put a jumper on.

BradfordGirl · 05/01/2023 20:19

@ivykaty44 I am sure that is true, some landladies are totally shit to their lodgers.

EpicChaos · 05/01/2023 20:34

Give him a weeks notice, or as little as is legally required, then get someone nicer in to rent the room.

durhamduck · 05/01/2023 20:42

Calphurnia88 · 05/01/2023 20:17

It's quite alright, although I am traumatised now and can't seem to put a jumper on.

Show quote history

I don't know if trauma is the right word (may or may not be) but autistic people often find layered clothing hard due to sensory issues!

I think it's daft to speculate about / armchair diagnose this guy without any proof at all, but I just thought it was quite ironic you were mocking the ASD point by referring to one of the most well known issues with ASD!

Original poster

Mumskisail · 05/01/2023 21:07

BradfordGirl · 05/01/2023 18:56

@Flapjackquack If the lodgers room really was at 25 degrees. I take that with a pinch of salt as OP also said 18 to 21 degrees and then revealed she had allowed the lodger to turn the heating up to 21 degrees - so it was clearly below 21 degrees before. She does not know what the temperature was in his room, she is guessing.

You are off track yet again. I'm comfortable at 18 degrees and happy to wear layers. I understand that he wants it warmer but 21 degrees should be more than enough. Please don't try to make out I'm abusing my lodger by expecting him to wear more then a T-shirt in winter 😆

OP posts:

Wiluli · 05/01/2023 21:11

Sorry but unless you explained to them they had to wear winter clothes inside their room you are being teh unreasonable one . There is no way I would not wear anything but a t shirt in my home , I hate the feeling of layers let alone in my bedroom .

Quincythequince · 05/01/2023 21:12

snowlolo · 05/01/2023 16:42

He's already moved in at this point though, under the assumption that he can do what he wants with the heating as he wasn't told otherwise.

It's not surprising he would feel a bit put out about a sudden imposition that wasn't made clear when he moved in.

OP simply needs to give 2 weeks' notice of increased charges. If he doesn't like it then he can move out.

Show quote history

Why do you ass use you can do what you what, just because you haven’t been told you can’t?!

What a bizarre set of rules to live your life by.

Unless he was born under a rock, he knows that heating costs money.

Wiluli · 05/01/2023 21:17

Your lodger can just get one of those plug in heaters and keep his bedroom warmer ? Not sure if it will be cheaper but you won’t be able to control it or see it 🤷🏻‍♀️

Southeastdweller · 05/01/2023 21:17

If he wants to wear a t-shirt in the winter or even be naked in the room he's paying you to live in he can do - what he wears is nothing to do with you, OP.

Onebelow · 05/01/2023 21:18

People saying he might not be able to wear a jumper due to trauma 😂 Only on mumsnet do you have people with wooly jumper related PTSD 😆

Original poster

Mumskisail · 05/01/2023 21:20

BradfordGirl · 05/01/2023 18:33

@Flapjackquack I think it is reasonable for a lodger to be able to be in their room without wearing a fleecy hoodie and having a blanket over them to keep warm. OP has agreed to increase the heating in the room to 21 degrees which is fine. It sounds like it was previously at 18 degrees which is unfair.
My bedroom temperature is low but I only sleep there. Lodgers usually hang out in their bedrooms after work and the OPs lodger is doing this. So it needs to be a reasonable temperature.

Absolute bull. Sorry you have totally misread and misinterpreted yet again. No I have not been forcing my lodger to live at 18 degrees.

I referenced 18 degrees as myself and the other lodger prefer to be cooler.

21 is fine but absolutely he needs to put warm layers on if that's not enough, and I make no apology for that.

But I totally get that others may prefer a warmer temperature. I'm more than happy for him to go up to 21 but he can leave if he wants to live in a 25 degrees sauna 24/7.

You seem to forget his behaviour - lying about problems with the radiator and TRV, using pliers to pull the pin out do the radiator blasts heat all night, saying he's okay with what I propose then taking it apart and trying to fiddle it instead of having an honest chat and so on.

Do you fancy offering him a home... Perhaps you'd be his perfect landlady!

OP posts:

Original poster

Mumskisail · 05/01/2023 21:22

Wiluli · 05/01/2023 21:17

Your lodger can just get one of those plug in heaters and keep his bedroom warmer ? Not sure if it will be cheaper but you won’t be able to control it or see it 🤷🏻‍♀️

That's why he needs to go. Electric heaters will cost a fortune and there will be a rent rise to cover it.

OP posts:

pattihews · 05/01/2023 21:38

OP, you mentioned that you let him do this last year because he'd been bereaved and now this year he expects to do the same. The precedent makes things tricky. He sounds really odd, stripping to his underwear and lying on top of his bed all evening in January. If he's just lying there uncovered of course he'll get cold. It's not the behaviour of a rational or sensible adult. You talk about him not being able or willing to discuss things in an adult fashion. I wouldn't be comfortable with that.

I think there's a power struggle going on here. You're a woman and a homeowner. He's a 44-year-old man who rents a room. You've been kind and allowed his son to stay but he's not showing you reciprocal consideration. I wonder if there's a game, conscious or unconscious, being played out? He wins when he has his son to stay. He wins by turning up the TRV and keeping you and the other lodger awake. I wonder what will come next?

I'd end his tenure and look for someone more reasonable and, for want of a better word, normal. And I'd change the agreement to make it clear that the heating is set at 18-21 degrees and goes off at night. You can just turn the boiler off completely at night, you know.

Flapjackquack · 05/01/2023 21:41

The people wearing T-shirts inside in the winter? oh how nice is must be to be rich and give zero shits about the planet.

Original poster

Mumskisail · 05/01/2023 22:29

pattihews · 05/01/2023 21:38

OP, you mentioned that you let him do this last year because he'd been bereaved and now this year he expects to do the same. The precedent makes things tricky. He sounds really odd, stripping to his underwear and lying on top of his bed all evening in January. If he's just lying there uncovered of course he'll get cold. It's not the behaviour of a rational or sensible adult. You talk about him not being able or willing to discuss things in an adult fashion. I wouldn't be comfortable with that.

I think there's a power struggle going on here. You're a woman and a homeowner. He's a 44-year-old man who rents a room. You've been kind and allowed his son to stay but he's not showing you reciprocal consideration. I wonder if there's a game, conscious or unconscious, being played out? He wins when he has his son to stay. He wins by turning up the TRV and keeping you and the other lodger awake. I wonder what will come next?

I'd end his tenure and look for someone more reasonable and, for want of a better word, normal. And I'd change the agreement to make it clear that the heating is set at 18-21 degrees and goes off at night. You can just turn the boiler off completely at night, you know.

I did try to raise it with him last winter as he was disconnecting the TRV and cranking up the heat but thinks he can lie his way out of it by saying it's not working or it disconnected itself. Which I knew was a lie - he's not that bright but thinks he is - but it just didn't seem worth making a huge issue out of it, especially as he was grieving. She was like a mother to him.

In Autumn, this year, September I sat down with him and also with the other lodger and explained what's happening with my mortgage rate and gas and electricity prices. I suggested a temperature and schedule and he said he 'wasn't that bothered' and appeared to be okay with it.

To be honest I've had lots of perspectives that have been very helpful but ultimately I feel I've done everything I can to try to work with him for a solution and we are getting nowhere. It's absolutely my decision who lives in my house, I'm well aware of my legal obligations and what is in my tenancy agreement and as long as I handle things kindly and with integrity I have every right to choose whether he stays or goes

OP posts:

MrsSkylerWhite · 05/01/2023 22:30

HotChoxs

What is people's problem in this thread? It's none of your business what they want to wear or not”

Nonsense. It’s entirely the bill-paying landlord’s business.

Original poster

Mumskisail · 05/01/2023 22:30

Flapjackquack · 05/01/2023 21:41

The people wearing T-shirts inside in the winter? oh how nice is must be to be rich and give zero shits about the planet.

Exactly!!! 🤷‍♀️😂

OP posts:

Original poster

Mumskisail · 05/01/2023 22:32

pattihews · 05/01/2023 21:38

OP, you mentioned that you let him do this last year because he'd been bereaved and now this year he expects to do the same. The precedent makes things tricky. He sounds really odd, stripping to his underwear and lying on top of his bed all evening in January. If he's just lying there uncovered of course he'll get cold. It's not the behaviour of a rational or sensible adult. You talk about him not being able or willing to discuss things in an adult fashion. I wouldn't be comfortable with that.

I think there's a power struggle going on here. You're a woman and a homeowner. He's a 44-year-old man who rents a room. You've been kind and allowed his son to stay but he's not showing you reciprocal consideration. I wonder if there's a game, conscious or unconscious, being played out? He wins when he has his son to stay. He wins by turning up the TRV and keeping you and the other lodger awake. I wonder what will come next?

I'd end his tenure and look for someone more reasonable and, for want of a better word, normal. And I'd change the agreement to make it clear that the heating is set at 18-21 degrees and goes off at night. You can just turn the boiler off completely at night, you know.

I turned the boiler off last night! But they're designed to stay on and out of principal I shouldn't be put in this position in my own house. So it's not okay.

OP posts:

MrsSkylerWhite · 05/01/2023 22:42

OooScotland · Today 18:15
Thank you @BradfordGirl an Soothsayer”

the solution is to accept that expecting your rented room to be heated to 25 degrees, in the Uk, in winter is completely unrealistic.