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Original poster

Lodger cranks up heating to 25

582 replies

Mumskisail · 05/01/2023 10:37

My partner left a few years ago and I had time off work for burnout and now in a less stressful (lower paid) role so on a tight income. I rent 2 rooms to help cover my mortgage and bills (about 40%).

The house is heated to 18-21 degrees depending on the room / personal preference, using Nest thermostats (called TRVs) on each radiator. It is lowered at 11pm until 5.30am, meaning it's warm for about an hour after going to bed and it heats up for a few hours before the lodgers get up.

One lodger is very happy with this and prefers a cooler room so sometimes turns it down.

But the other constantly overrides this and heats his room to 25. When I've tried to speak to him about it he answers his door in a tshirt and is only wearing normal socks. The rest of us have warm clothes, slippers and big fleece hoodies on winter evenings, and use fleece blankets to stay cosy on the sofa.

We seem to be in a battle of wills. He goes along with my suggested times and temperatures in discussion but has done everything including claiming his radiator and the TRV don't work, disconnecting the TRV but trying to make it look as though it's connected, saying it won't connect and pulling the little pin out with a pair of pliers to force the heating on. He leaves it on all night. The thermostat when it's reading says 25-26.

The other issue in this old Victorian house is that the heating pumping out all night causes banging in the pipes and keeps myself and the other lodger awake, or wakes us up in the night. So we prefer lots of layers and a quiet night unless we're in a cold patch.

I've offered him extra duvets and blankets (his looks thin) and a hot water bottle but he refuses. I've asked him to discuss the times he wants the heating on and to talk about the heating.

He says the temperature reading is wrong so I gave him a wireless thermostat which showed the same temperature as the TRV and showed it was correct.

I've explained about the increasing cost of gas and showed him my bills. I've showed him the temperatures in the rest of the house and that we are comfortable.

This is the second winter we are having these issues. Last year his sister died so I just kept my mouth shut and left him to it but I felt really unhappy.

Do I just suck it up, winter will be over soon and I'm not making a loss. Or do I tell him it's not acceptable and ask him to leave? Or is it better the devil you know, this is the only issue.

A friend suggested a locking cover to go over the TRV, I'm so irritated it's tempting but is that really ethical? And anyway would he then just get an electric heater? I don't go into his room and I would never snoop.

He's a 44 year old man having to rent a room and it must be his sanctuary and private space.

Do I just let him win the battle and chill out?

OP posts:
Oher · 05/01/2023 16:51

snowlolo · 05/01/2023 16:34

I think you have to take your own assumptions about what is a 'normal' temperature out of this completely.

The fact is that he's comfortable at 25 degrees, and 21 degrees is 4 degrees cooler than he would like it.

Whether you think that's right or wrong, that's just the situation.

Imagine your landlord had turned everything down to 4 degrees below your comfort level, and was insisting that you should just use a blanket. You'd feel hard done by.

Temperature is entirely subjective and if he's saying he's uncomfortable then believe him. Why would he say this if he was perfectly comfortable and happy with the temperature?

You should just tell him that up to 21 degree is 'included' in the rent, and charge him extra for the extra energy to bump up to 25. It's pretty straightforward.

Show quote history

Temperature is not “entirely subjective”. The optimal living temperature for humans has been thoroughly researched and it’s 19-22 degrees celsius.

Flapjackquack · 05/01/2023 17:00

The mental gymnastics of some posters. In most agreements for renting/lodging a basic level of reasonableness and decency is assumed from all parties. Have we really reached a level in society where people need to spell out that they expect people to wear a jumper in winter, and not to take apart parts of their heating system with pliers. I despair.

ivykaty44 · 05/01/2023 17:00

@Southeastdweller Lodger do indeed have very few rights and do not have tenancy agreements or tenants rights

many lodgers turn to the council private rental team for mediation. Some lodgers can be subjected to all sorts of treatment, from not letting them in after 10pm at night or not allowing them hot water

the op putting the heating at 21 would not be seen or deemed as unfair treatment

Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g · 05/01/2023 17:01

The fact is that he's comfortable at 25 degrees, and 21 degrees is 4 degrees cooler than he would like it.

Whether you think that's right or wrong, that's just the situation.

So reasonableness doesn't come into this at all? Suppose he wanted to take a bath or play loud music in the middle of the night because that's when he likes doing those things. Suppose he wants to run a business from OP's house and suddenly clients and delivery people are coming and going all day. Suppose he paints the room purple and red without asking her if it's OK, making it far harder work to re-decorate for the next lodger.

He's a lodger in OP's house and he should be considerate of OP and her other lodger. He doesn't get to dictate how the house is run if that means the majority of other people in the house are less comfortable than they would like to be.

TerfOnATrain · 05/01/2023 17:01

He’s a joke, sounds like my DH. Comes home, strips off
and cranks up the heating. I didn’t even have it on yesterday and the house was comfortable at 17 degrees, I did put the gas fire on in the evening and had a blanket to hand.

my gas and electric bill for five weeks in a four bed semi has just come in at £600. I’m fecking raging.

I’ve just turned the heating down on the Hive from 21 to 17 … again 😡

GarlicGrace · 05/01/2023 17:03

Glad OP's made her mind up, as she and this lodger were obviously going to fall out. I do want to stand up for fellow cold-bloods, though! A home where "normal socks" are too cold is not at all homely to me. I can't stand bundling up indoors: you end up being sweaty in some parts, yet freezing in others. Heating is a priority to me - and, yes, I pay my own bills. I'm quite poor but will cut out other apparent essentials if that's what I've got to do to be warm enough.

It's a pity, I think, that OP was so fixated on 21°. If the guy's anything like me, he'd have paid a few quid extra to have the freedom of his radiator. Still, I hope he finds a better-heated home without too much trouble, and OP finds a lodger who likes things just the way she does.

BradfordGirl · 05/01/2023 17:03

17 degrees is cold. I do understand that might be all you can afford though.

WendelineTestaburger · 05/01/2023 17:05

This reply has been deleted

This has been deleted by MNHQ for breaking our Talk Guidelines.

BradfordGirl · 05/01/2023 17:05

ivykaty44 · 05/01/2023 17:00

@Southeastdweller Lodger do indeed have very few rights and do not have tenancy agreements or tenants rights

many lodgers turn to the council private rental team for mediation. Some lodgers can be subjected to all sorts of treatment, from not letting them in after 10pm at night or not allowing them hot water

the op putting the heating at 21 would not be seen or deemed as unfair treatment

The OP did not have the heating on at 21 degrees though. She has agreed to increase it in his room to 21 degrees.

WisherWood · 05/01/2023 17:08

Temperature is entirely subjective and if he's saying he's uncomfortable then believe him. Why would he say this if he was perfectly comfortable and happy with the temperature?

Well that will be news to physiologists. I hadn't realised that someone's preference for avoiding a temperature of 50 deg c. was entirely subjective and actually some people might quite like it.

Meanwhile, in the real world, our bodies are governed by physical processes that operate within measurable parameters. If you're cold at 21 you put a jumper and some socks on before you take pliers to your heating appliances and turn the temperature up to 25. That doesn't need to be written into a contract, for much the same reason that 'don't practise juggling flaming cats' isn't put into contracts. It's just deemed reasonable not to do these things.

And besides, the OP has since made it clear to him and he has ignored her. I get that being a tenant can be miserable. I've been there. But you don't help yourself by ignoring and overriding reasonable requests.

SchnauzerEyebrows · 05/01/2023 17:11

BradfordGirl · 05/01/2023 11:23

I would not expect to have to use a fleece blanket over normal clothes to be warm enough if I am paying for a heated room.
I think 18 degrees is too low for this situation and 25 degrees is too high.
The fact you seem to expect him to use a fleece blanket to be warm enough does suggest that the temperature is lower than you are making out. If a house is at 21 degrees no one should need to wear a fleecy hoodie and have a fleece blanket over them.
If your pipes are banging the radiators need bleeding. This may also be affecting the efficiency of heating.

THIS!

Mirabai · 05/01/2023 17:14

Just get rid of him OP. Don’t waste time with threads on here.

JudgeRudy · 05/01/2023 17:19

I don't think it should come down to one of you 'winning' but clearly this isn't working. Different people are comfortable with different things. I'll assume you want him to be comfortable, the issue is the addition charge. I'd suggest coming to some sort of agreement about the extra cost which will involve a rent increase. You need to be prepared to follow through with what you think is fair and that could mean getting a new lodger. Maybe ask your other lodger if they know anyone that might be interested in renting. I guarantee that will get back to troublesome lodger

wouldvecouldveshouldve · 05/01/2023 17:22

I'd be serving notice on him, immediately, and locking down the heating via a device that he can't override.

Volhhg · 05/01/2023 17:24

I think you should ask him to leave. He doesn't have the same tenancy rights if he shares kitchen and washing facilities with you. It's not an assured shorthold tenancy if this is the case and he is a paying guest to you. It's quite easy in my experience to find a lodger if you live in a metropolitan area and it usually works out better if it's a temporary arrangement as then resentments don't build up

Abigail69 · 05/01/2023 17:39

Mumskisail · 05/01/2023 14:01

Just to reassure everyone, we agreed a months notice either way to end the arrangement and I will stand by that. He'll probably start playing Caribbean music and dancing in his pants at 30 degrees for a month, and I may need earplugs for the pipes, but at least he'll be gone soon enough!

Do it is writing

LikeTearsInRain · 05/01/2023 17:39

Can you not override the Trvs on central controls or the app?

OooScotland · 05/01/2023 17:43

The Op has got her solution so this is not meant to add anything to her dilemma and is not aimed at any pp.

There are a lot of (lucky) people here who have no idea what its like being a lodger and seem to liken them to teenage children or worse, disrespectful domestic staff. I want to say this as an ex lodger who was very, very close to having to live on the streets a few times in my early twenties.

There is a massive disconnect between people letting out rooms in their homes (who are almost always single women in my experience) and lodgers. Lodging rooms are often the only option for people without full time jobs, while those who do, having more and better choices, will choose lodging in fewer cases. In my case I had a degree but for a few years could only get entry level temp work in offices and shops.

Of course all the landladies want full time workers only and guaranteed out of the house 8 - 6. Thus many people have to lie and say they have a ft job because if they don’t there is nowhere they can live. Not everyone has a family they can move back in with (by 21 I only had my mum, who was in a nursing home) or understanding friends able to help.

Between ‘rooms’ I stayed in a cheap hostel using a credit card I couldn’t afford while I worked all the hours I could to scrape together cash for room deposits and up front rent for crappy, cold, (inclusive often means very minimal heating), rooms in houses where I felt constantly watched and judged.

Lodging can be infantilising and demoralising and in many cases, ridiculous as it may sound to some, the only thing the lodger can do to not feel miserable is get a heater for their room and hide it somewhere when they’re out (I used to lock it in the wardrobe and take the key with me or take it out with me and stash it in a friend’s garden shed) because you know your room is more or less searched on a regular basis.

I had a halogen heater because the glow made me feel safe and at home, especially during times when I was secretly job hunting and having to stay out of the house for nine hours a day with nowhere to go other than agency and other appointments.

I felt no guilt about this because I needed that bit of control, of comfort and yes, I always resented the homeowner and her great job and her great social life while I was wearing myself out and living a lie to pay her mortgage.

I’m 52 now, married, and fortunate enough to be financially secure but I like to think that not always having been so has given me a perspective that I wouldn’t have had otherwise.

TimeisSpace · 05/01/2023 17:45

@Mumskisail I realise that this will no longer be an issue given he will be gone, however, on the Tado smart TRV's I beleive that you can childlock them now. Food for thought if their is a next time (hopefully not)..

BradfordGirl · 05/01/2023 17:50

OooScotland · 05/01/2023 17:43

The Op has got her solution so this is not meant to add anything to her dilemma and is not aimed at any pp.

There are a lot of (lucky) people here who have no idea what its like being a lodger and seem to liken them to teenage children or worse, disrespectful domestic staff. I want to say this as an ex lodger who was very, very close to having to live on the streets a few times in my early twenties.

There is a massive disconnect between people letting out rooms in their homes (who are almost always single women in my experience) and lodgers. Lodging rooms are often the only option for people without full time jobs, while those who do, having more and better choices, will choose lodging in fewer cases. In my case I had a degree but for a few years could only get entry level temp work in offices and shops.

Of course all the landladies want full time workers only and guaranteed out of the house 8 - 6. Thus many people have to lie and say they have a ft job because if they don’t there is nowhere they can live. Not everyone has a family they can move back in with (by 21 I only had my mum, who was in a nursing home) or understanding friends able to help.

Between ‘rooms’ I stayed in a cheap hostel using a credit card I couldn’t afford while I worked all the hours I could to scrape together cash for room deposits and up front rent for crappy, cold, (inclusive often means very minimal heating), rooms in houses where I felt constantly watched and judged.

Lodging can be infantilising and demoralising and in many cases, ridiculous as it may sound to some, the only thing the lodger can do to not feel miserable is get a heater for their room and hide it somewhere when they’re out (I used to lock it in the wardrobe and take the key with me or take it out with me and stash it in a friend’s garden shed) because you know your room is more or less searched on a regular basis.

I had a halogen heater because the glow made me feel safe and at home, especially during times when I was secretly job hunting and having to stay out of the house for nine hours a day with nowhere to go other than agency and other appointments.

I felt no guilt about this because I needed that bit of control, of comfort and yes, I always resented the homeowner and her great job and her great social life while I was wearing myself out and living a lie to pay her mortgage.

I’m 52 now, married, and fortunate enough to be financially secure but I like to think that not always having been so has given me a perspective that I wouldn’t have had otherwise.

I totally agree with you. I too have been a lodger and it is properly shit. It is not a choice most people with options take. And to add to it the rent on a room is usually pretty high. In return you usually get a list of rules about where you can store food, cooking, heating, use of the bathroom, etc. And plenty of landladies think they can judge what you eat and your lifestyle - just like the OP critical of her lodger because he ate a sausage roll for his dinner.

Soothsayer1 · 05/01/2023 18:00

I too have been a lodger and it is properly shit. It is not a choice most people with options take
I'd hate it too😟
ultimately this is because of failure to properly regulate the housing market so that it meets the needs of the people....isnt it?

billy1966 · 05/01/2023 18:05

23 degrees?

Don't be silly.

He touches it again and he's out.

Do not allow this CF intimidate you.

Any messing, just insist he leaves.

My hearing is a bit creaky at night so I never have it on, even in cold weather.

We have electric blankets and 15 tog goose duvets, absolutely no need for the heat on in the middle of the night.

I like a cold bedroom anyway, sleep better in a fresh room and most of the year have a window open.

Delighted to read you are getting rid.

I eonder how easy he will find it to meet someone as accommodating.

OooScotland · 05/01/2023 18:15

Thank you @BradfordGirl and @Soothsayer1

I fear there is no solution in this very imperfect world.

Flapjackquack · 05/01/2023 18:27

I agree it must be miserable being a lodger but that doesn’t mean you get to take your anger at your situation out on the landlord/lady by being unreasonable. People don’t tend to take in lodgers unless they themselves are in some financial difficulty themselves. It’s not like BTL landlords hoarding housing, I can’t imagine it’s fun having to share your home with strangers either.

And whilst I get the lodger is helping to pay the OPs mortgage what is the alternative? OP sells her house and rents somewhere or buys something a lot smaller? Fine but then the lodger still needs accommodation and the sad state of social housing means they aren’t likely to get that. The problems with the housing market haven’t been caused by people like the OP, and the people who have been lodgers on this thread need to direct their anger somewhere else. The OP is not unreasonable in this.

BradfordGirl · 05/01/2023 18:33

@Flapjackquack I think it is reasonable for a lodger to be able to be in their room without wearing a fleecy hoodie and having a blanket over them to keep warm. OP has agreed to increase the heating in the room to 21 degrees which is fine. It sounds like it was previously at 18 degrees which is unfair.
My bedroom temperature is low but I only sleep there. Lodgers usually hang out in their bedrooms after work and the OPs lodger is doing this. So it needs to be a reasonable temperature.

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