To have refused girly night with DD?

[JustAMum2023]

I suspect IABU, but am just so frustrated.

So as not to drip feed, here is the backstory:

DD14 has zero, and I mean ZERO interest in personal hygiene and appearances. Showers require bribes, she refuses to wash or brush her hair, skin is awful, loads of spots and blackheads but she won't use face wash or even wash it with a flannel. She puts on the the first thing she lays her hands on, regardless of the weather or situation. I don't insist she looks "Instagram ready" at all times, but showered, teeth cleaned, hair brushed and clean and tidy clothes is reasonable, surely?

So, in an effort to encourage her, the other night I said lets have a girly night tonight, showers, hair washed and conditioned, then we'd do face masks and manicures and pedicures, have some treat snacks and watch a movie. She went off to shower, all good. Comes out, having flooded the entire room, hair dripping wet, CLEARLY not shampooed and says shes ready for facemasks and treats. I said no, not till you've washed your hair and she hit the roof. Says she IS washing it and I'm just a horrible mum. I refused to budge, said no treats till her hair is washed AND she's sorted out the flooded bathroom. She went to her room and stayed there for the rest of the night.

DH says I should have backed down and I'll have made her worse now. I feel terrible. So WIBU? or am I right to insist on basic hygiene?

You need to take a much less confrontational and much more gentle approach.

I bet she already has tried a gentle approach. She sounds at the end of her rope.

Apologies if this has been broached already and I've missed it, didn't rtft. Can you have girly night and treats with her, without the pretense?

It sounds like she was very upset by trying to have quality time with her mum, to be 'nagged', and she was probably expecting it too. Perhaps she realised the pretense there and then, and it felt disingenuous.

I get that you want to save her the pain of bullies saying it to her, but maybe a kid saying it to her will get her arse into gear with it. Other possibilities like SN etc have been broached so I won't repeat.

Maybe it had been washed?
maybe she MH needs help?

This! I didn't realise this could be a thing, but it is! There is no malice in my message to OP but this blew my mind.

Does your daughter actually know 'how to' do the basics?

I do not doubt that as she was growing you washed her, washed her hair, brushed her hair, brushed her teeth, dressed her, bought her the clothes that you dressed her in, cleaned her room, made her bed as a small child BUT does she know how to do it for herself? While a lot of us do every one single of these daily tasks automatically without even thinking, to some these are all learnt skills. Yes skills and showing her doesn't mean that she has comprehended and banked those skills either.

I don't like this take, I wish my parents had at least tried to help me with basic hygiene as an ADHD teen with executive functioning issues, instead of going "shrug it's your choice". These little things (like hygiene problems) can set you up for a lifetime of social failure, self esteem issues, general failure (discomfort of greasy hair eats away at motivation and attention), etc...

I know it's really hard to parent a kid with any kind of issues but just wanted to affirm OP that she's doing a great job even just trying

Also just wanted to chip in that sensory issues is good point, but ADHD doesn't have to come with sensory issues. I struggled with basic hygiene due to low executive functioning (low motivation, low threshold for boredom and routine, high need for novelty, inability to prioritise and sequence tasks well), but have zero sensory issues

I don't know where people are getting this because every comment from op reads like she sees her youngest as her good daughter and eldest as her bad daughter, upsetting her golden child. It's scapegoating especially as she holds herself out as a loving parent but there's no evidence of that in her messages

Fair enough. I have ADHD and hated self care tasks as a child/ teen and feel like the worst thing my parents could do was nag me to do a task as it then made me feel a lot of pressure and made the task I was already struggling with into an even bigger chore and feel even less desirable. I didn’t want to do anything unless it was on my terms, making self care novel with things like face and hair masks would have worked for me over insisting I use shampoo and wash my hair and making it a chore.

Other things that work for me are changing the shampoo and shower gel I use regularly, if it’s a product I want to use because it smells nice or if I have a new body sponge/ puffer etc that will often motivate me for a few showers before it gets boring. I also have a strict routine, I always wash my hair on the same days weekly so I know I when it’s happening. As a child in a big family in an old house with limited hot water (not enough for everybody to bath/ shower daily) we all had specific days and time slots for showering/ washing hair within the week and if you missed it then you either showered in cold water or waited a couple of days till your next slot, when my parents nagged me I would feel pressure and that would make me less likely to do the task and eventually they did decide my body my choice and I did learn to embed the routine over time.

Of course you are. We have the same issue with my DS, 12, and suspect ND. We all know we have to be the grown up, keep our temper etc but sometimes it is so hard. My DS is demand avoidant and suffers from anxiety, it is hard to get him to do most things. I did a brilliant course that has taught me to try and work out what I'm worried about if he doesn't do something, eg with showering I worry he'll smell and get teased, I then try to calmly explain these risks/ possibly consequences to him and leave it to him to decide, more often than not he will do it. It is getting him to see it is something he needs/wants to do rather than me making him. But is is bloody hard work and exhausting, and sometimes I loose my shit! Hang in there, you love her and are clearly a great mum x

Why would anyone feel terrible about disciplining their child. The world has got mad.

I don't like showers, I prefer a bath. This is because I'm incredibly short-sighted and feel a bit unsafe in the shower without my glasses on, standing on a slippery surface surrounded by glass panels!

Is it something like that?

Because if you suspect your child is ND, they are doing things out of their control. It's like disciplining a child for pooing themselves who is incontinent. I'm not saying ND children should have a free pass to behave any old way btw, but there are some behaviours without medication and/or strategies to help them that they will repeat time and time again, no matter what reward or punishment is given, as their brain doesn't function in the same way as a NT child. That's why you would feel bad about disciplining then. Many kids with ADHD grow up with really poor self esteem as they are told off and punished a lot more than their NT peers.

If it’s sensory processing disorder, would she pour shampoo/ water solution over her head, enough to saturate it, then stand in shower to rinse through? You may need to sacrifice a whole bottle to get it strong enough to do the job without scrubbing but it will get the hair clean. Just explain that you get it. Forget conditioner her greasy hair won’t need it. I bet the issue is the feeling of brush / fingers on the scalp . To her will feel like razor blades and she can’t express it . Poor you, poor her x

To PPs taking about disliking flannels, my ASD child had more success with microfibre make up remover cloths (usually you see pads, but you can also get larger, flannel-sized ones like this amazon.co.uk/Microfibre-Reusable-Washable-Cleansing-Flannels/dp/B08RBQDZXD/ref=sr_1_5?crid=JY8YVZZP084W&keywords=microfibre+makeup+remover+flannel&qid=1673113256&sprefix=microfibre%2520makeup%2520removal%2520flannel%2Caps%2C200&sr=8-5).
They're not 'cold' like flannels, feel soft and are very efficient at removing dirt as well as makeup. This might also be useful for OP to try with their child.

Try bicarbonate of soda and water rinse or acv rinse for grease busting. Facial wipes are quick and easy and febreeze will help with clothing. I put soda crystals in the washing machine to break down the enzymes in sweat.
One day it will click with her. My eldest was hard work until she smelt a but with really bad BO but my youngest has just turned 10 and she has a half hour nightly "beauty regime"

DS14 has ASD/ADHD, he was not keen on showering up to about a year ago, we finally got to the bottom of what was wrong and it was to do with the drying. He found it stressful (he has lots of sensory issues). We got him a towelling bathrobe and this resolved it as it meant he doesn't have to dry himself, recently we got him one of those surf change robe/towels which he now uses now instead.

Obviously he has short hair so not sure about how to help with this but those microfiber turban towels are good as you can brush your hair wet then just put it in the towel to dry.

I have ADHD and believe me I needed discipline or I would have been feral. Why are we being so quick to label children. I refuse to be labelled and I have made a good life for myself with medication.

I’ve not read all the replies but I got to here and thought that’s my DD almost exactly! She has just been diagnosed with high functioning ASD (previously called aspergers). She is very bright too, has an almost photographic memory.

We have issues with washing hair and showering (terribly greasy after she supposedly washed it and actually a bit smelly too in the roots (she was not doing it right /only one shampoo and not getting any to the greasy areas). I had our hairdresser wash it (instead of doing a dry cut). So we had a clean good base to work from (got my daughter to agree to this little ‘pamper’ in advance) We changed shampoos, I helped her wash it a few times (watched how she did it and told her where to add more shampoo and it is better now, not perfect but better). Showering is limited to twice a week. If I suggest washing her hair or showering at any other time I get told no it is not showering day. I try to encourage use of deodorant and using a flannel to have a wash in between showers but she is not consistent with doing either. But there is only so much I can do it is up to her.

We finally got diagnosed as she started eating/nibbling off her hair. I took her to the doctors as I was worried about blockages if she was indeed eating her hair, who referred her to a therapist at school who after a few meetings wanted her to get tested for ASD. We ended up going private as the waiting list is over 2 years for testing on the nhs. Apparently girls are very good at masking their behaviour and it’s not until something big happens (like starting secondary school in our case I think) or later in life that many girls/women get diagnosed.