To have refused girly night with DD?

[JustAMum2023]

I suspect IABU, but am just so frustrated.

So as not to drip feed, here is the backstory:

DD14 has zero, and I mean ZERO interest in personal hygiene and appearances. Showers require bribes, she refuses to wash or brush her hair, skin is awful, loads of spots and blackheads but she won't use face wash or even wash it with a flannel. She puts on the the first thing she lays her hands on, regardless of the weather or situation. I don't insist she looks "Instagram ready" at all times, but showered, teeth cleaned, hair brushed and clean and tidy clothes is reasonable, surely?

So, in an effort to encourage her, the other night I said lets have a girly night tonight, showers, hair washed and conditioned, then we'd do face masks and manicures and pedicures, have some treat snacks and watch a movie. She went off to shower, all good. Comes out, having flooded the entire room, hair dripping wet, CLEARLY not shampooed and says shes ready for facemasks and treats. I said no, not till you've washed your hair and she hit the roof. Says she IS washing it and I'm just a horrible mum. I refused to budge, said no treats till her hair is washed AND she's sorted out the flooded bathroom. She went to her room and stayed there for the rest of the night.

DH says I should have backed down and I'll have made her worse now. I feel terrible. So WIBU? or am I right to insist on basic hygiene?

YANBU. Very important for teenage girl to have good hygiene practices.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding your post, but what does not being girly have to do with not being clean?

I was not into girly things and spent most of my time outdoors and with horses, but I was clean! I showered and changed as soon as I walked in the house.

As someone with ASD/ADHD who still struggles with this:

• does she know how to do it? Have you actually taught her how to wash her hair or do you expect her to just know?
• getting out the shower and "getting dry" is horrific for me so I have a big towelling robe to put on
• listening to music or podcasts while in the shower helps
• is she anxious about something she can't articulate? She doesn't know how to avoid water everywhere so you tell her off when she does have a shower? The shower makes a weird noise? The bathroom doesn't have a lock so she's scared people will barge in?

An Assessment would make a difference. You can do it privately.

There's also a product called 'shower in a can' that's really good. I used it while camping last year, may be easier as a temporary clean than a shower for your dd

I really feel for you and your daughter. I have two older teenage daughters and they both tell me 14 was a really horrible stage/age for them. One daughter has recently been diagnosed with ADHD and it has transformed her life. I suspect the other has either ADHD/ASD or both. They are both very bright, very charming etc but bloody hard work at home at times. I do break down at times and I do get it wrong multiple times. I hope you are able to push for a referral for your daughter and in the meantime it might be best if you back off completely for a while about the hygiene stuff. Try to open up communication on other things. Your daughter will know you are worried about this and further pressure will probably lead to further conflict and cover up. I wish you and your daughter lots of luck. If you feel the frustration building take time out. Keep remembering all the things she is managing that are probably taking a great deal of her energy. It has got better for us and I hope it does for you.

I read once that getting into the shower can seem like a huge thing to some ND people as actually it’s not just one task it’s several (ie turn shower on, get undressed, get in shower, wash, get dry, redress) and whilst not complicated can feel like a lot of effort. I don’t know the answer here but it did explain to me why I can often procrastinate for hours before showering.

I would be careful how you approach this with her. I was made to feel very ashamed of my hygiene and body by my stepmother growing up. It lead to an eating disorder and I am forever affected by the way she made me feel unclean even though I was washing regularly, my hormones were just out of control.

The hair washing, I agree with a PP does she know how to wash her hair properly? I didn’t learn properly into adulthood, not that it matters, my hair is still greasy after a day, always has been that way, only time it was less oily was during pregnancy. The spots and blackheads too are as likely to be hormonal than face washing.

Has she started her periods? Does she manage those ok?

Parent wants a clean child

Parent suggests manicures, doing hair, face masks or whatever

Child may not want to do this

Parent may be able to talk about being clean doing an activity child does want to do instead

Self refer OP.
Poor hygiene and self care is a clear sign of deteriorating mental health in teen girls. Poor mental health is the presentation of autism for many able teens

Could you take her to the hairdressers and ask them (maybe in advance) to talk through every part, as if they are teaching (without it being obvious). e.g. Now i'm going to brush with x brush, starting from the bottom, this is because it... now I'm going to get about this much shampoo and... and so on.

Parent wants clean child

The manicures/ face masks etc (while not something I’d do for fun) are all getting clean activities

Doing a dirty activity in order to discuss getting clean could make things even more complicated

Child may still not want to get clean after the dirtier activities

If you strongly suspect ADHD/ASD, push for a referral. Yes, it's harder when a person doesn't fit the stereotypical presentation, but by no means impossible. I am autistic and ADHD myself, and got diagnosed in my early twenties with both. You must push for an assessment, it's only fair.

A diagnosis means she (and you) has answers, can access support throughout life (because we never know what our needs/situation will be in the future, and the time to seek a diagnosis is not when in crisis down the line, it's now), and will improve her mental health and sense of identity. There's no point trying to avoid labels, because we all get labeled anyway: if it's not as autistic and ADHD, it's "lazy", "dirty", "stupid", etc. Better for her to know her real conditions (if indeed she has them) than always be wondering. It seems clear to me she has something going on from the things you've described. It is worth the effort to seek an assessment, trust me.

Just an idea, but have you tried encouraging nice baths (loads of bubbles, nice smelling products) and she just washes her hair in the bath? Not the best but at least her hair would be washed and she could have some chill out time in the bath (making it seem like less of a task than the shower). Perhaps music to listen to or ipad on one of those bath trays?

Definitely not being unreasonable, but unproductive approach

See if there are other ways? If younger child I'd recommend making it "fun" like shower/shampoo timer, but seems a bit odd and invasive for teen. If the face masks and treats appealed to her (great idea on your part), think about what part of that appealed to her: if sensory, maybe go on a girly shopping treat with her for some nice lush shampoo or whatever she likes the smell/feel of; if atmospheric, maybe get some nice shower speakers for music/radio (this also helps if the issue is boredom/mundanity - people with ADHD struggle with mundane tasks even if they take only a few minutes); etc.

I also partially disagree with previous posters saying little incentives aren't going to fix this. Agree that on the whole, wider issue needs to be addressed, and that bonding time shouldn't be held hostage.

However, if it's a question of executive functioning or motivation, little things go a long way in setting up healthy structure. In fact, for some of my clients, they're crucial for survival. Certified SEN therapist here, it could be a question of neurodivergence, but applicable to most teen brains as well.

Btw not uncommon for kids with ADHD or ASD to be extremely bright. Also not uncommon for kids with ADHD to be extremely social and popular – not in the sense of "masking" at all. The bright and popular kids are the ones that fly under the radar but have a myriad of executive functioning issues that stack up in life, sometimes only get diagnosed as adults.

Bad acne at that age is probably due to more than a lack of hygiene. This is a harmful and stigmatising trope. Maybe feeling unconfident about her skin is playing into her feeling conflicted about managing her appearance as a whole. Just a thought based on my own experience as a teen.

Both my two have sensory issues related to ASS and really struggle with personal hygiene although they are both younger.

Things that have helped include the choice of bath or shower, and a timescale for doing it eg sometime today before bedtime you need to have a shower/bath and wash your hair. My DD will do it in the morning before school my DS prefers before bed. My DDs spatial awareness means the bathroom is often covered in water because she can’t sort the shower curtain, so she uses my en suite shower cubicle which is larger and has fixed barriers.

Try out different toiletries, my DS can only tolerate very low scented or unscented products. Try different face cleansers, my DD will only use wipe on/wipe off ones like micellar water. We use dry shampoo between hair washes.

They both have very soft bath robes for wrapping up in, we also use very soft micro fibre towels for hands, face and hair drying.

Ill brush my DDs hair while she watches something she enjoys on iPad, the distraction helps. Both hair brushing and nail cutting are physically painful for her, she can be in tears at times so very gently and a treat of some kind at the end works. Because of her sensory issues she can’t tolerate her hair up either so need to negotiate on hair length v hair brushing.

It’s very difficult and I too can feel frustrated, but I try to think about how it must be for daily tasks to by physically painful.

If she has undiagnosed asd, her mental health is likely to be suffering. You need to pick your battles. The soaked bathroom wasn’t intentional. The hair wash was needed. Maybe make a routine which is written out so she gets in the habit. I would make a gp appointment and go from there. With the asd as there are huge waiting lists. It doesn’t sound as if she is functioning that well if she can’t get herself ready for the day appropriately. Have you considered a cahms referral for her mental health?

I agree - is she depressed, being bullied etc?

So in this scenario, just to ensure that the pamper night went ahead…. I would have just sprayed dry shampoo on it and got in with it.

Did you say “if I wash your hair, then we can have the pamper night?” And she still refused despite really wanting it?

My daughter had diagnosed ADHD and I'm pretty sure I have it too.

Showering as a teen was almost non existent, don't take it personally, it's not something you are doing wrong.

I would actually run the shower and just stand there in the bathroom... until my Mum clued on and then I started to just splash water on my shoulders to try and trick her.

Makes no sense as an adult but perfect sense to me back then 🤣.

I do think your reaction was wrong. I would have suggested letting it go, getting on with your pamper night and then gently opening up a conversation once you had settled in.

I suspect you'll need to work harder to get her to participate in your girly night next time but if I were you, I'd try an apology and inviting her to do it tomorrow we night.

We strongly suspect asd/adhd

so…. What have you done in this regard?

Potentially getting a shorter hair style could help, if she’s amenable to that. I loathe showering, I hate the feeling of washing, grooming etc. As an adult, it’s a task to undertake regardless of hating it, but what I have done is shave my hair so there is little grooming required. This is obviously the extreme end of the scale but even a shorter style makes it so much more manageable.

I had very similar with my now 18 year old girl at the same age. We rowed frequently over her lack of hygiene. She is now glad I made a fuss as although she finds it difficult to motivate herself to do the upkeep, she understands why it’s important to try.
she has just been referred for ASD diagnosis and the issues with hygiene were part of that referral. As she now understands that this difficulty is part of her ND she’s actually much more on board when I check up on how she’s doing with teeth cleaning and showering. If she’s in the shower she now uses shower gel, shampoo and conditioner as it’s pointless her just getting wet - so we have made progress.

Could she be ND ?