To have refused girly night with DD?

[JustAMum2023]

I suspect IABU, but am just so frustrated.

So as not to drip feed, here is the backstory:

DD14 has zero, and I mean ZERO interest in personal hygiene and appearances. Showers require bribes, she refuses to wash or brush her hair, skin is awful, loads of spots and blackheads but she won't use face wash or even wash it with a flannel. She puts on the the first thing she lays her hands on, regardless of the weather or situation. I don't insist she looks "Instagram ready" at all times, but showered, teeth cleaned, hair brushed and clean and tidy clothes is reasonable, surely?

So, in an effort to encourage her, the other night I said lets have a girly night tonight, showers, hair washed and conditioned, then we'd do face masks and manicures and pedicures, have some treat snacks and watch a movie. She went off to shower, all good. Comes out, having flooded the entire room, hair dripping wet, CLEARLY not shampooed and says shes ready for facemasks and treats. I said no, not till you've washed your hair and she hit the roof. Says she IS washing it and I'm just a horrible mum. I refused to budge, said no treats till her hair is washed AND she's sorted out the flooded bathroom. She went to her room and stayed there for the rest of the night.

DH says I should have backed down and I'll have made her worse now. I feel terrible. So WIBU? or am I right to insist on basic hygiene?

This is very unusual for a 14 year old girl, the opposite problem of them having lengthy showers every day is more common. With her hormonal changes the hygiene issue will become more noticeable amongst her classmates and she is at risk of abuse and bullying. As someone suggested, formulate a minimum standard of hygiene requirements - teeth cleaning, daily washing, showering, hair washing, clean underwear, clean clothing etc - adherence to the requirements will gain her access to pocket money, phone, internet etc. You cannot just let this continue.

My ds has asd and showering is a nightmare, he's 17 now and hasn't improved. He hates a shower so has a bath. I now just run it, tell him it's done and ready and to get in. He would go a month or 2 if I let him. Do you have a shower head connected to the bath? Maybe you could wash it for her before she gets in? Dry shampoo for the days in between? Is her hair long, maybe a shorter style would be easier for her to manage

do you think she’d be agreeable to getting her hair cut shorter? Would be a lot easier for her to wash and dry?

you don’t need a diagnosis to start using methods that work for ND kids.
tbh a diagnosis does nothing other than give an answer to why they do a lot of behaviours. You won’t get much help from official channels.
there is tons of info and support out there, lots of charities who offer support to families without diagnosis as they understand waiting lists, masking etc!
support your daughter in the way she needs now. Yep it’s hard to get your head round a lot of the behaviours but you need to make a start.
💐

@JustAMum2023 if you strongly suspect neurodivergence then you need to fight for a referral. My DD16. is exactly the same - very bright academically, has great friendships etc but is ASD/ADHD. She used to be an expert masker at school and in social situations then all hell would break loose at home. We managed to get referred by the GP.

I think you need to look at what is causing this asap. Can you go private for adhd-asd assessment?

I'd read up on ADHD in girls & puberty. See if she fits the profile. I didn't realise with my DD until flags showed. Now it's obvious.

From a different angle, has she had any problems at school or with boys that may make her want to have people stay away from her or be put off?

Short hair. See what she thinks about that.

If you suspect neurodiversity have you approached things from that angle. Eg, sensory issues and executive dysfunction. I never ever washed my face in my teens, water on my face was awful, but I did use cleansers. Obviously from a sensory perspective some are better than others in feel and smell, cotton pads are okay, cotton wool is horrific to feel.

If adhd, there are a few issues. To start with, it's boring. A speaker in the shower and listening to something is the only way I get through it all even now. Someone I know loses track of time in the shower and so avoided them due to how much time it took. A traffic light timer worked there. But being motivated to get in can be an issue in general. Another adhd person I know only manages to take care of themself while medicated.

That's only scratching the surface, it will help a lot to look at specifically asd/adhd info and experiences about all this. And keep in mind if there's demand avoidance there anxiety about the whole thing will make her ignore it even more.

Honestly, I feel very upset by your post...you strongly suspect neurodiversity but rather than research if her behaviour is linked to this and how you can support her you just tell her off? Being bright has nothing to do with anything - grammar schools have higher than average asd/adhd because the neurodiverse can often hyperfocus on academic subjects if they are that way inclined. It's likely she doesn't understand your expectations of 'washing' her hair. At the core of neurodiversity - and especially with inattentive ADHD (hyperactive mind rather than hyperactive body) is missing social ques. If she is someone who is very messy and often running late etc or losing things inside the house or outside of the house or both - please google inattentive ADHD and see if this applies to her. The NICE guidelines say ADHD is underdiagnosed in girls - because they mask the traits in public.

Have you approached the GP for a referral? I would write down all your concerns and request that she is referred. There may be support you can access while you wait. And they may be able to support her MH if needed, MH support is more likely to be needed with ASD/ADHD.

In the meantime, can you compromise with the showering? Have you asked her what she doesn’t like about the process? If it’s the hair washing what about body showers/baths for hygiene - and a weekly hair wash with dry shampoo in between. Get one of those soft silicone jugs for gentle hair washes that you can get? If it’s a sensory issue with her ears and the water then some swimming ear plugs. Or let her choose some products? Or a different/shorter hairstyle that’s more manageable?

quick question - is your house warm?

Not a dig, but its horrible getting in and out of a shower in to a cold room?

This is REALLY common with autism / adhd. A combination of sensory issues and lacking the executive function to carry out the tasks. She probably already feels shit and ashamed.

Is your dd refusing a referral for autism / adhd assessment, or have you assumed that she won’t get referred? Because she can get assessed if she wants to.

Have you read about PDA and the PANDAS approach/ low demand parenting? Reducing overall demands might help. Google, and there is helpful info on the PDA association website.

You may have to pick your battles and work with your DD’s sensory needs. My dd hates showers and I do insist on a baseline of personal hygiene, but she doesn’t shower as often as I would like. Hair isn’t washed often enough, and we compromise on tying it back when it needs a wash. If it’s clear that a shower is going to lead to a meltdown we try again the next day.

Can you buy some wet wipes and encourage a wash with those in between showers? Will she tolerate dry shampoo etc?

Spotty skin you may have to let go.

My older dd refused assessment and I hope she will change her mind, but can’t really force it.

If she is neurodivergent, there could be two issues here. One, or both, could have an impact. The first is executive functioning and task switching. The going from getting up to shower, then transitioning from shower to getting dressed and starting the day. It doesn’t sound like a lot, but can feel overwhelming, and if there are demand avoidant traits this could play into it as well. All teens are demand avoidant to a degree - that’s teenagers for you, and perhaps they should be to an extent as this is the time they start to become independent. The second issue is sensory - the feel of water, the enclosed space of a shower cubicle, sensation of water and products on skin/hair/face, etc. I’m autistic (and have ADHD traits but not diagnosed), and I had the first issue but not the second. I love showers and being clean, I hate the feeling of being sweaty, but the executive functioning side of it can be tricky, even as an adult. The texture of products can also be an issue.

If task transitioning is an issue, then showering after school/before bed might work better. Wipes and dry shampoo for the days she really can’t face the shower if it’s sensory. A face serum or gel type product for her skin may be better tolerated than a cream. I hate, hate, hate the feeling of creamy moisturiser on my skin but can use a serum, toner, gel or a light oil like Bio Oil. I prefer using a fine spray bottle for toner or oil than having products on my hands or using cotton wool (ugh!!) I love peel off masks, but not wash off ones.

Finally, I would not necessarily agree that she wouldn’t get diagnosed or that a diagnosis is a bad thing. It depends how she feels really - I’m not sure I’d have been ready for it as a teen, but it’s certainly helped me as an adult, and there can be unintended consequences in adulthood to not having a diagnosis or at least an indication of why someone has particular traits or needs, and it can help to reduce the shame around not being the same as neurotypical peers for some people. I’m still unpacking a lifetime of masking as a “high functioning” autistic woman diagnosed late.

@MyAnacondaMight thank you for that suggestion, I've just ordered her one..

As a ND person I'm quite horrified by some of these posts.

For me having a shower feels like getting beaten up. I'd actually rather someone hit me than forced me under running water.

There are lots of alternatives for DD. (Ignore the wider issue of diagnosis, she DOES have hypersensitivity so you work with that).

Razor and wipes/anti perspirant for underarms. Baby wipes for body. Face wipes for face.

Baths rather than showers. Unless she's getting sweaty from exercising once a week is fine.

Hair- a few options
-very short cut
-very long and put up into a ponytail/bun everyday
-weekly washes at the hairdresser
-lots of dry shampoo
-let her be

But overall try not to sweat the small stuff. Does it really matter? Is she happy? She's not doing anything wrong/illegal. For teen behaviour this is very low tariff. Is it more about how it reflects on you? If so that's your issue.

She needs kindness, pamper nights regardless.

Do you empathise with her hypersensitivities?

i had asd/adhd and tbh, i struggle with it. the only solution i found with my hair was to pretty much shave/cut it most of it off, so washing/drying is now a 10 minute job that just requires a quick head over the bath wash and a towel dry, rather than 10 minutes of pissing about with shampoo/conditioner and then having to keep it in a towel for an hour or spending AGES using the hairdryer.

The issue with ND is the transition of getting IN to the shower, its the whole process.. making time, having to stop what i'm doing to get in, the mental prep, pushing through the procrastination.. some days it feels like that there are too many steps and its overwhelming... its not just a matter of undress, get in, for people with ADHD/ASD its a whole list of 'steps' required to get in, so much more thought, and NT people don't seem to understand that difference in the thought process behind getting anything done.

If you're suspecting ND, you need to sit with her and tackle some way to break it down and make it easier.

FTR, i'm also a mum of 2 ND teens and we have a rule that they shower twice a week, and they must do it as soon as they come home from school and there are no electronics until they've done so. I'm currently trying to get my 16yo DS up to 3 times, but he is resisting the change in routine, and my 14yo DD is a nightmare and i had to threatening her with a complete ban off EVERYTHING for 24hrs for each time i had to prompt her. So i DO understand the battle.

Just to add, I'm normally very empathetic and considerate to her sensitivities, I'd just lost patience that night what with the flooded bathroom and stroppy attitude. I'm human too!

I have a ND teen DD. Her personal hygiene was similarly hit and miss until fairly recently. Things that worked for her:

Baths not showers
Choosing own products that appealed to her
Shorter hair
Dry shampoo
Face packs / bath bombs
Ability to play her music in the bathroom
Supportive interests and tips from young women (my older DD, my hairdresser) so not just me talking to her about self care

I hated showers as a teen, especially washing my hair in them. Loved baths (and washing my hair in the bath) though.

If this is an issue, a towelling bathrobe with a hood is so much cosier and easier to wrap yourself in than faffing about juggling towels. It also cuts out several ‘steps’ in the bath/shower process.

Old-fashioned maybe but cleaner / more eco than wet wipes and can be more acceptable than a shower to a resistant teen: a wash with a basin of hot water, soap and a flannel.

How about a shampoo bar instead of runny shampoo?

Does she have long hair? Would she be willing to cut it short so there's less maintenance