To have refused girly night with DD?

[JustAMum2023]

I suspect IABU, but am just so frustrated.

So as not to drip feed, here is the backstory:

DD14 has zero, and I mean ZERO interest in personal hygiene and appearances. Showers require bribes, she refuses to wash or brush her hair, skin is awful, loads of spots and blackheads but she won't use face wash or even wash it with a flannel. She puts on the the first thing she lays her hands on, regardless of the weather or situation. I don't insist she looks "Instagram ready" at all times, but showered, teeth cleaned, hair brushed and clean and tidy clothes is reasonable, surely?

So, in an effort to encourage her, the other night I said lets have a girly night tonight, showers, hair washed and conditioned, then we'd do face masks and manicures and pedicures, have some treat snacks and watch a movie. She went off to shower, all good. Comes out, having flooded the entire room, hair dripping wet, CLEARLY not shampooed and says shes ready for facemasks and treats. I said no, not till you've washed your hair and she hit the roof. Says she IS washing it and I'm just a horrible mum. I refused to budge, said no treats till her hair is washed AND she's sorted out the flooded bathroom. She went to her room and stayed there for the rest of the night.

DH says I should have backed down and I'll have made her worse now. I feel terrible. So WIBU? or am I right to insist on basic hygiene?

you don’t need a diagnosis to start using methods that work for ND kids.
tbh a diagnosis does nothing other than give an answer to why they do a lot of behaviours.

good advice here from @Brendabigbaps - it's what i do and it works well

Gef a Nice dry shampoo try another day do it with her

Mine are adhd and or asd. They dodge washing. Baths are usually the least contentious. They use t gel to wash hair as keeps hair less greasy between gaps in hair washing.
I probably old have done same op as I can't cope sensory wise with smell of unwashed hair.
Teen dc now uses face wipes as they are the same every time. Then spot mask to clear blackheads

Because washing your hair more causes your hair to dry out and damages it. Not to mention the more you wash it the more it needs washing. So forcing your kids to dry out their hair because you think it looks better wouldn't be the right thing to do

I don’t think I’d have made an argument out of it, but I would have shown her the packet of the face mask/a hair mask and explained that there’s simply no point slapping products on dirty hair/skin. The packets almost always offer the steps of how to do it and say something like ‘apply to cleansed face.’

I’d also try to have a chat with her at a calm time. Explain that certain things (washing, teeth, clean clothes) are just non negotiable if you want to be tolerated in society. Ask if she needs support washing her hair, would it help her to have a short cut like a wolf cut, French style bob, pixie or similar. But explain at the end of the day that it is unacceptable to refuse to take on these basic hygiene routines, and that while you’re willing to help and support her any way you can so it’s as comfortable as possible for her, she needs to help you and engage. It’s best she finds ways she can tolerate and feel comfortable getting clean, rather than refusing to do it at all because she doesn’t have those supports to make it easier.

We strongly suspect asd/adhd
so…. What have you done in this regard?

OP did say that her DD doesn't want to go for tests.

which is why using strategies developed for and by people with ADHD can be helpful

Can you take her to Wilko or Boots etc give her £20 and let her choose her own shampoo, shower gel etc so she 'buys in' to the process?

skin is awful, loads of spots and blackheads but she won't use face wash or even wash it with a flannel

I use a facial cleanser and moisturiser everyday and still suffer from hormonal adult acne.

Spots and blackheads are not caused by not washing your face.

However, you’re not being unreasonable to insist on basic hygiene.

Shower or a bath everyday, to use soap on body (May get away with every other day.
Hair washed - at least once a week. Washing hair too much will strip it of the natural oils.
Teeth cleaned morning and night.
Clean clothes everyday.

If your daughter refuses the above, I would dig deeper why. Mental health, additional needs, sensory issues?

If you strongly suspect autism/ADHD, please try and get her assessed. Both can present differently in girls/women, and many of us are still intelligent, "high functioning", and sociable.
I have poor executive functioning when it comes to personal hygiene and it's a daily battle to keep up. You mention she only wets her hair or brushes a certain bit of it, but in her mind she probably thinks she's done enough.

@Pleasecreateausername13 not everyone's issues are the same though, are they? That's the thing with neurodiversity!!!

@Brefugee the OP said she won't get referred because she is outwardly social and intelligent, not that she has refused to get tested.

oh then i misunderstood.
But the advice still stands.

I have said this to my girls.
However I was wrong.
Despite daily hair washing they each had hair that would become greasy again before the end of the day. Their hair stylist told them that the constant washing created more oily hair as it replaced oils which were taken away with the washing. They then changed to alternate days and their hair is far less greasy!

We use this with one of our autistic children:

www.amazon.co.uk/Zerreau-Towel-Off-Shampoo-Foam/dp/B01FKEJ75E/ref=mp_s_a_1_3?crid=1ICUXTOSJ2DIX&keywords=zerreau+towel+off+shampoo+foam&qid=1672921860&sprefix=zerr%2Caps%2C901&sr=8-3

Required lots of OT advice to get him in the bath etc. Can you afford a private ASD assessment and private OT advice?

I also read it as the dd doesn’t want assessment for neurodivergence.

If she will agree to it, a diagnosis will help her begin to understand her own neurology and work with it.

Exactly - so why are people saying that is the issue when it may not be.

Because the two things occurring together - likely neurodivergence and the issue with washing, means it’s almost certainly the issue? And op has said there are sensory issues.

If someone is nd, all issues they have will need to be addressed with a nd perspective. They’re not going to have an issue that can be separated out from their neurodivergence and dealt with as though they were neurotypical, because their nd is their whole wiring.

@Pleasecreateausername13 you didn't say it may not be, you said you did it think it was adhd/asd based on the fact that it isn't something you struggle with; despite multiple people leaving replies on here saying that it is their lived experience that they do struggle with it.

I am autistic. I don’t struggle with hygiene. I hate the sensory feel of not having washed.

Many other autistic people struggle with hygiene. I work in a role where I see many adults struggling with this. It’s incredibly common.

Most hair dressers I have asked say 1 week between hair washing is better for it than every day or other day. Of course washing everywhere else should be daily.

Some teens will never be out of showering and some will avoid as they feel it's overwhelming.

Has anyone talked through the stages of showering and how things are done and also what to do to clean up after.

At one grandparents house they asked us to wipe down the shower glass after every use, they explained their logic about damp and why and we always did it despite never having to do it anywhere else.

Parenting is hard I'd probably have been annoyed to at the mess etc but maybe dd was overwhelmed a good chat and rearranging the pamper night for another night might be a good plan to have.

Interesting to see others' experiences - I have mild sensory issues so do the dithering before/in between stages of showering - unless I'm really sweaty, in which case I can't get into the shower fast enough! I hate the feeling of sweat on me!

And as you will know ADHD affects different people differently.

I had a period of this at that age, as did my son, we both have ADHD, which could be a factor, or just being horrified at the changes in your body. It was only a short phase, but you need to speak to her, or possibly get someone else to have a gentle word.

Good Lord

my son didn’t want to go for tests

not many actually want to go for tests

but my god. You still go ahead if you “strongly suspect” something.

If she is ND she'll find it much easier once a routine is established. It can definotely be really difficult to get it going though. It might well be a combination pf sensory issues and autistic intertia which means people lack the internal drive that most of us have to get started. Once a routine is rigid and well established it's much easier to maintain.