To have refused girly night with DD?

[JustAMum2023]

I suspect IABU, but am just so frustrated.

So as not to drip feed, here is the backstory:

DD14 has zero, and I mean ZERO interest in personal hygiene and appearances. Showers require bribes, she refuses to wash or brush her hair, skin is awful, loads of spots and blackheads but she won't use face wash or even wash it with a flannel. She puts on the the first thing she lays her hands on, regardless of the weather or situation. I don't insist she looks "Instagram ready" at all times, but showered, teeth cleaned, hair brushed and clean and tidy clothes is reasonable, surely?

So, in an effort to encourage her, the other night I said lets have a girly night tonight, showers, hair washed and conditioned, then we'd do face masks and manicures and pedicures, have some treat snacks and watch a movie. She went off to shower, all good. Comes out, having flooded the entire room, hair dripping wet, CLEARLY not shampooed and says shes ready for facemasks and treats. I said no, not till you've washed your hair and she hit the roof. Says she IS washing it and I'm just a horrible mum. I refused to budge, said no treats till her hair is washed AND she's sorted out the flooded bathroom. She went to her room and stayed there for the rest of the night.

DH says I should have backed down and I'll have made her worse now. I feel terrible. So WIBU? or am I right to insist on basic hygiene?

@JustAMum2023 It might be different in your area, but where I am you can access support for sensory issues though child and family occupational therapy. It might be worth looking into as our OT service don't require any diagnosis, just evidence of functional difficulties.

This is the worst type if answer. Very sanctimonious. Do not judge until you have lived it. All teens are different this advice just doesn't help can in fact make it worse.

When I was planning my recovery from surgery and knew I wouldn’t be able to shower for a while I came across this company Freshwipes.co.uk the wipes are large and really freshen you up (also good for those with disabilities and elderly unsteady on their feet folk). I also used dry shampoo to help with my hair but this company also now do a rinse free shower cap that you can use to wash your hair, I can’t vouch for these as I’ve not used them myself. If it’s a sensory issue for your DD the wipes and shower cap might work?

100% this. I felt a small pang of pain when I saw you didn't carry on with the session.

As others have said I'd be thinking of what else might be going on. Be even more gentle with her and even more understanding even if inside you're so frustrated.

She may be ND as others have suggested or just having difficulty with current life stage. There could be issues at school.

You are asking on here so you obviously care about her and want to help her and that's lovely. Keep supporting her and talking to her gently. Arrange another pamper session but let go of any expectation and let annoyances slide. Focus on you both spending time bonding and being happy in the moment.

My DD struggles with day to day tasks and I'm keeping a close eye on it as she may need support. She is more obsessive with cleaning and hygiene but can't do things tidily. She loses things a lot and gets upset about it. All you can do is love them and be there for them.

For what it's worth, I have adhd and at 35 I still have to really take myself into showers, and most of the motivation for that comes from social expectations and having a partner I'd like to keep. It get harder to talk myself into them if I'm having a rough time.

She's young and if she does have adhd/asd then she hasn't figured out how to cope with it/found ways to manage it.

It's all very well people saying things like "parent her" etc but until you are that child or adult with that issue you don't understand. Some days the idea of getting into the shower makes me want to cry, its such an enormous sensory overload. I can counter it sometimes by having a bath and washing my hair over the side with the shower head but if we're in someone else's house or a hotel etc then that's not an option.

My skincare is ok but that's because it's a bit of a hyper fixation but I have to physically remind myself everyday to brush my teeth. I keep a toothbrush in the bathroom and one in the kitchen to up my chances of accomplishing it.

The way you're describing your daughter doesn't sound like laziness, it sounds like adhd/asd and until she finds coping mechanisms - which you can maybe help facilitate but won't be able to do much else with - it will continue to be difficult.

Is she any better with a bath? My DD has sensory issues and she doesn’t cope with showers.

She does like lush bath bombs however so we got a selection, then set up a station so she can watch Netflix and relax while she is there, and get the bathroom prepped with warm towel on radiator, head towel wrap so she doesn’t have the feeling of wet hair, clean clothes laid out go get straight on.

Hair washing is still a once a week thing with a lot of bribery.

As a threat or a suggestion? What's your aim?

I'd be more worried about her teeth than her hair. I did brush my teeth as a teenager, but I never knew how to brush and floss properly - I did have gum issues and the dentist recommended various flosses/toothbrushes but nobody ever showed me how to do it or even told me I needed to brush below the gum line. I never had any cavities so nobody seemed to think there was a major issue. My gums got worse and worse. I am finally doing it properly and on a treatment plan, but it's still unlikely I'll keep all my teeth long-term.

You can also buy a berry flavoured toothpaste (Morrison’s do their own brand) which might help if the mint taste of toothpaste is too much for her.

Flooded bathroom… just throw a towel down to clean it up, pick your battles.

Sometimes by DD gets into the bath but doesn’t make it to hairwash stage as she gets too hot/has had enough. I just praise her for having a bath and at least being clean, and say you can try for the hair for tomorrow, it needs to be done by ( give date of two days away) and you can choose when.

maybe on one of those days she will
ask me to wash it over the sink for her - for some reason this is okay from a sensory viewpoint, although I would hate that I think!

It’s either a sensory issue or a mental health issue. Either way, you laying into her made it much worse and was unnecessary. Say she didn’t was her hair this time but did shower, did do face masks and did do nails - that’s a win for what you want. She’s met you more than half-way. You were being inflexible and shaming her and making the whole problem worse.

If I were you, I’d try again and maybe wash her hair yourself like if you went to a salon. Or take her to an actual salon?

Might she benefit from one of those wide brimmed hats with holes in them to help keep shampoo out of your eyes when washing your hair? You can get them in adult sizes.

I do feel for you! Both my DDs were exactly like this until about the same age. My DH and I both set a good example re hygiene and both constantly and consistently reinforced our expectations, for years I worried and then one day, for each of them, it just clicked. Now they're both very clean and aware of their personal hygiene and appearance and take care to a healthy and happy level. I liked your idea of a girl's night, and I'm sorry it didn't go to plan, it's very difficult to respond perfectly all the time. We love and care about them so much! In the meantime, to err on the side of caution (re potential reasons for the issue, it might be difficulty adjusting to puberty or sensory etc) keep being consistent with your expectations, whilst being empathetic and validating if her feelings to reduce the conflict and stress.

Why is washing your hair while having a bath worse than while having a shower? Genuinly surprised to read this.

I suppose just everything going into the bath after you wash it out, but I do it when i’d rather have a bath than a shower 😀

Watching with interest. I am autistic, as is DS. I have never had any problem with washing but it's always a fight with him - he has to be forced to brush teeth, change into clean clothes etc. At the moment I'm taking the 'it's this or a drill in your mouth in 10 years time' line re teeth and a 'please love, kids are mean and you don't want them teasing you for being smelly' line re clothes. He does it, so grudgingly, but it's exhausting and boring. I will read up on these tips and see if any might help him to get through life a bit more smoothly - thanks!

It's better to rinse with clean water, but this would certainly be better than nothing.

Dry shampoo some days then hair wash every so often???

Are you sure your daughter is really not washing? Or are you mostly basing that on how her skin and hair look and assuming? When I was a teenager my dad used to accuse me all the time of not washing my hair or not washing it properly because of how it looked and it simply wasn't true. I had thick, greasy, wavy unmanageable hair. I hated it and it made it worse that I was being accused of not washing it. I also had terrible skin dispite using a myriad of products on it. My mum used to shame me about it despite my efforts. Even now I still have some black heads and spots despite washing and cleansing. What I'm trying to say is maybe try and look at it more from you daughter's perspective. It might come across as criticism and putting her down instead of encouragement. Especially if she has sensory issues that she can't help.

You say your daughter isn't interested in hygiene but yet she wanted a pamper session with you? Surely that must tell you something? I think instead of punishing your daughter you need to sit down with her and discuss which products would best suite her hair and skin type. And also the best way to manage her sensory issues and make shower time a pleasant experience. Don't offer to bath her. Absolutely no 14 year old wants that. You need to encourage her not punish her.

It's certainly true that acne and greasy hair can continue despite regular washing, especially in puberty. Both my DDs experienced this. I wonder if it all feels overwhelming and she sees no point. Our eldest DD became quite down with her acne, and our GP prescribed contraception pills which helped immediately and made it all much more manageable.

I'm ND, I concur with previous ND posters that that act of going for shower is a huge deal for me ... I dont even know why. It just seems too difficult. Not helped by me being completely unable to deal with water in my face, and finding the getting hot/getting cold , getting wet/ getting dry thing totally overwhelming. Having a bath feels much easier. Brushing my teeth has always been tricky... its just painfully boring and I can't stand there for 2 minutes (Adhd) I finally recently found a toothbrush I can cope with...a Philips sonicare one.. I had a braun one and the shape and vibrations just felt all wrong...

Re assessment ... my life has been so much better since diagnosis and treatment of my ADHD and I have learnt to understand my sensory processing disorder/ASD and no longer just hate myself for being so shit at things other people appear to be able to just do. I'm still shit at it but more accepting of it ! My biggest issues arise from the poor self esteem and sense of failure as a result of none of my problems being recognised in childhood and being shamed and shouted at for stuff I just couldn't do.

Some excellent advice here already, but I would suggest you take the approach of ‘reward the behaviours you want’ : she went in the shower and tried to wash her hair, reward that with lots of praise etc. then next time she might also wash her hair with shampoo. She will likely respond better to positive encouragement than criticism.

But, she might also not be able right now to wash in the exact way you expect. As others have suggested talk with her about different options for hygiene, and ask what she finds tricky about washing - is it the temperature change, sensitive scalp or skin, water over her face and eyes etc

If its helpful try to see that she is not giving you a hard time she is having a hard time.

Yes, agree with rinsing with clean water but thats not an issue when having a bath. Or is it? Perhaps people still have the old fashioned British bathtubs without a hand-held shower which I forgot about.

When I was 14, a teacher told us 'Every day, without fail, wash your hair, under your arms, and between your legs'.

I don’t think it’s anything to do with ADHD, I was diagnosed at 14 - now in my 30s and I could literally have 10 showers a day including washing my hair. In fact I cannot get up in the morning and not have a shower before I go ANYWHERE.

This was one of the first signs of ADHD in our daughter who is now 15. If you suspect she has ADHD think you’re going to have to seriously prepare yourself because it sounds like she did make an effort and she’ll perceive that you threw that back in her face.

My daughter struggles severely with executive function meaning simple routine tasks are really difficult for her to accomplish. It’s taking a lot of patience and learning in our part and we are still working our way through but where tasks are concerned, processing and organisational challenges mean she generally tries to do all the stages of a task at once and normally ends up not reaching a sewn up end point - and doing whatever she’s doing in a very messy, illogical way. We have to recognise that she’s not doing this on purpose or trying to antagonise us - it’s simply the way she is and ADHD kids are hugely at risk of depression and self-loathing because they learn over the years that they are just getting everything wrong. How demoralising that must be - I feel untold guilt for all the tellings off and frustration I’ve directed at my daughter before I realised there was actually something else going on.

I can’t counsel you enough to be careful with how you approach this and my advice to you is that her self acceptance and self worth are the going to be the most precious, important things in her life. You can be instrumental in helping her preserve these things. I believe my earlier approach of becoming frustrated with her and applying what I thought were normal consequences, a bit like the one you’ve described, in an effort to teach and guide her how to behave, has damaged our relationship as she just sees me as critical and disappointed in her which is absolutely awful because I love her so much and just want her to be happy and content. Instead I have an exhausted and demoralised teen. I have a lot to try and make up for and feel so disappointed in myself for not following up on instincts and niggles over the years!