To feel disappointed in my manager telling me I’m not supporting women??

[UniCred1]

Okay please bear with me. I come from an Arab country. I watched women being treated like second class citizens since my childhood and promised myself that I’m never gonna let that happen to me. I supported women in my area as a volunteer since I was 14 years old. I’m always vocal when I see male relatives making misogynistic jokes and a lot of them stopped saying anything like that in front of me. I kind of gained a reputation of being “strange” “not feminine enough” within the family but I honestly don’t care.

When I got married, I informed my husband that I don’t want a traditional marriage like back home. That he will be expected to work just as much as I do in the house. That I won’t be a maid and won’t be the official chef of the household. That my opinions won’t change overnight and I’m quiet stubborn. He didn’t have any issue with that and tbh he has been always kind even when I was quiet mean and provocative at the beginning of our marriage. He supported me during my Uni years and was an amazing husband throughout. Now where’s the problem?

A few years ago I realised that I want to be a SAHM even before I gave birth. I had a terrible morning sickness so I left my job and was the happiest woman ever. I spent my pregnancy doing lots of leisure activities and travelled with my husband. He expanded his business and started working long hours as a result. Financially we are comfortable and I don’t need to work however I went back to work because I wanted to. I’m very good at cooking and I enjoy it. My husband cooks occasionally but I’m the one who does most of it. I’m also a good cleaner despite it being the worst chore for me! Husband hates cleaning and he’s crap at it. I decided that I will hire a cleaner every now and then if I’m tired, and I will continue to be the main cook of the house. What this means is that I’m back to the traditional model that I promised myself that I won’t become!! However I’m okay with it!

It doesn’t bother me at all. I don’t contribute financially to the household at all and I spend most of my salary left and right however I want it. I save a lot as well and my husband thinks that every family works differently and that this is what works for us. We’re all happy this way. He’s the provider and he’s expected to pay for everything and support me if I decided to leave work again. I run the household and I became so much better at managing my time and efforts so that I’m not exhausted at the end of each day.

This morning my manager was telling me that women who leave work during pregnancy are holding other women back by acting like it’s a disability. She said that they shouldn’t do that and shouldn’t accept that their OH do nothing around the house. I told her about my situation and she raised her eyebrows saying it’s a shame that there are women like me still allowing men to get away with not doing anything. And she thought the fact that I don’t contribute is weird and controlling! I felt a bit upset at the language she used and for the fact that she thought I’m definitely not a feminist nor do I support women’s independence!

AIBU?

Your manager is judgemental and an inflexible thinker.

There's no way she should be passing comment on your private situation, and she is clearly a bit narrow minded. But despite your long post and how you thought in your youth, it's clear that you are now living the life of a hobby worker and doing all the "old fashioned" household stuff (or hiring someone else to) while your husband is earning loads and pays for everything i.e living the stereotype.

How you planned your life to be and the way you got to this point doesn't really give you any extra "points"! However I can understand you being pissed off if she feels you have no awareness of feminism etc, especially if you feel she may be making that assumption because of your background. I'm sure you told her that you were perfectly aware of the issues.

Sounds like she has her own personal experiences that are shaping her views as well (maybe she or a friend were mistreated by employers due to pregnancy and she is wrongly blaming other women for this).

Well, part of feminism is being able to live how you want to live. So if you want to be a SAHM and you're thriving, then why not?

Just be aware that it may come with drawbacks - harder to get back to work when dc is older, loss of job skills, you are reliant on your h for money.

Well, she's wrong to say that women shouldn't leave work when having a baby. My version of a feminist opinion on that is that women bearing the brunt of childbearing is something that workplaces should take into account. Workplaces should also facilitate fathers to be involved in baby care much more than currently. It's not about what one individual woman chooses to do.

But, allowing yourself to be financially dependent on your husband is not exactly a feminist choice. I think you should be realistic to yourself about that.

Some women manage to make patriarchal systems work in their favour. You are one of them. I don't blame you for that. We all play our cards the best we can, and as long as you're not disadvantaging other women, good luck to you.
However, I think from your position of privilege its tactful not to go on about it. If you said to her what you've said here, it sounds very smug and self satisfied, and no doubt got up her nose.
(NB: That isn't the same as her being jealous of you, rather that the patriarchal set up you enjoy because your husband chooses to be generous, is not so kind to other women. As a feminist she may have expected you to show awareness of that)

How did this even come up? I can't imagine a work situation where we get into this kind of conversation.

I'm a bit confused, which doesn't take much.

You left your job, but went back to work, you don't contribute financially but have a manager?
Are there different time periods involved?

Anyway, I think she was rude to judge you like that. But I agree with pp that you don't get "credit" for previous efforts to support women, break out of stereotypical roles. If you are financially dependent on your husband and doing the bulk of the cleaning and cooking, you're going along with some old fashioned stereotypical roles. If you're happy with that (and have plans or means to support yourself if there was ever a reason you needed to) that's fine. Nobody has to further women's roles, it's not your individual responsibility to do that.

Her judging you perhaps means she's not being that supportive of women either.

She went back to work because she wanted to. Her husband lets her keep all her salary to herself for spending money while he covers all her living costs. She thought it would be a good idea to share this with her manager. As you do.

However, I think from your position of privilege its tactful not to go on about it. If you said to her what you've said here, it sounds very smug and self satisfied, and no doubt got up her nose.

The manager started it by criticising the op. She has every right to stand up for herself. It's nobody else's business whether a woman stays at home or goes to work. And if my manager had tried to make me feel bad about my decision, I'd have shared my situation too, and not as politely as the op probably did.

It is not really your manager's business, or mine, how you and your husband manage your finances, but since you ask, yes, I can see her point.

Stop worrying about what other people think of your domestic set up. It's none of your manager's business. If it works for you and DH then no issue.

You've only made one mistake and that's telling your boss your business. I certainly wouldn't go into that much detail especially into financial matters. This will be a lesson learnt.

And don't get divorced.

Thanks! Missed that, like I said, easily confused!

Just to clarify that, of course, I don’t go around like that telling people about my situation. I understand I’m in a good position in comparison to many women who are expected to give up their income AND do everything at home. I understand that and I’ve seen it happening. The only reason I mentioned it to her is because I wanted her to understand that people can change their mind over time when circumstances changes. Of course I would have loved to have a husband who shares the cooking, cleaning, childcare…etc but he’s working 70 hours a week. Is it reasonable to ask him to do the cleaning when he comes home at 7pm feeling exhausted? His job isn’t in a comfy office either. He’s out in the freezing weather nearly all day and does a lot of manual work. I can’t do that to him and I’m happy to settle for doing everything at home whilst he works and provides for us.

The conversation started because a member of staff started her mat leave 3 months before her due date. My manager wasn’t happy about it and said that she should have worked a lot more as being pregnant doesn’t equal being sick. And that’s how I told her about my story. I just don’t like the fact that she implied I’m backwards because I don’t follow her model of fifty fifty household contribution.

I think your manager is a person and is allowed to have opinions on women in the workplace, she went a step too far when she made it personal to you though.

But I think she has a point, considering how you opened up with your progressive views (particularly in your culture), it was then a bit disappointing to see how you have slipped back into picking up domestic chores but more than that have absolved yourself of taking joint financial responsibility and instead like to be taken care of like a child.

Your colleague could only have started her mat leave 11 weeks before her due date. Your manager can't possibly know the personal health circumstances of that colleague, who may well have a pregnancy related issue or illness that means she would prefer time off. She's also being pretty dense because taking mat leave when pregnant means returning earlier! You don't get any more leave than anyone else, you just get less time with your baby.

I understand that but I’m not financially dependent on his income. He pays the bills and house expenses and I still have my salary. I save 40% in my account and spend the rest on myself and the mortgage of a holiday home that I bought a few years ago abroad. So in the event of anything bad happening or a divorce, I still have my savings and a house abroad.

The manager was out of line personalising the political with a subordinate, no question.
But as a defence against the view that being a SAHM was not a feminist choice, the OP picked a poor one.
If a SAHM feels her choice is compatible with her feminism I'm sure there are more compelling was to argue this than merely listing how the model enables her (just one woman) to live a very privileged life. The OPs personal benefits are irrelevant to the wider issue.
Obviously SAHMS don't have to justify anything to anyone, but if they are also flexing feminist credentials then it's probably going to come up at some point.

“Being pregnant doesn’t equal being sick” ahahaha what a fool has she never heard of morning sickness, hyperemesis, SPD etc?

I hate with a passion people who say things like “you’re pregnant not sick.” For most women pregnancy is not actually a fun frolic but involves huge demanding physical changes that can be very debilitating. Women like your manager are the reason no one ever offered me a seat on my 50 minute commute when I was pregnant.

Your manager is an idiot who you can’t discuss non-work issues with, unfortunately.

You won’t get a fair hearing on Mumsnet tho, they hate sahms here.

But he didn’t choose to be generous. Where we’re from men have to provide for their families anyway. Both of us chose the traditional model because it meant that I won’t be nagging him to do his share of house chores which he’s really rubbish at. We used to argue a lot at the beginning of our marriage because whenever he thought he did a great job at cleaning or tidying, there’s me huffing and puffing after him because it’s just crap and I end up re doing the work. Which adds tension and grudges in the relationship. Add to that the fact that he works long hours so if I insisted on doing it the feminist way, is it fair on him to do the house chores after 10 or 11 hours of work?

Well isn’t that funny, that you are better at cleaning than your husband, even though you don’t like cleaning. That’s the vagina. We’re built for it, of course 🙄

Live your life the way you want to, sure. But at least stop with the “better at cleaning” crap.

Sorry I should’ve clarified. I got married whilst at uni and then worked after graduation. After 2 years I got pregnant and left my job to become a SAHM for a few years. I went back to work again when my youngest started nursery.

Never 🥰

“Both of us chose the traditional model because it meant that I won’t be nagging him to do his share of house chores which he’s really rubbish at”

That’s just really pathetic. And that is where you lost your feminist credentials. Not in deciding that you doing the housework works for you. But in buying into the idea that telling a man to pull his weight is “nagging” and buying the sad pathetic trope that a man is rubbish at housework 🙄 I’d be embarrassed to type that. My husband would be embarrassed if I typed it about him.