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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To feel disappointed in my manager telling me I’m not supporting women??

131 replies

UniCred1 · 04/01/2023 18:23

Okay please bear with me. I come from an Arab country. I watched women being treated like second class citizens since my childhood and promised myself that I’m never gonna let that happen to me. I supported women in my area as a volunteer since I was 14 years old. I’m always vocal when I see male relatives making misogynistic jokes and a lot of them stopped saying anything like that in front of me. I kind of gained a reputation of being “strange” “not feminine enough” within the family but I honestly don’t care.

When I got married, I informed my husband that I don’t want a traditional marriage like back home. That he will be expected to work just as much as I do in the house. That I won’t be a maid and won’t be the official chef of the household. That my opinions won’t change overnight and I’m quiet stubborn. He didn’t have any issue with that and tbh he has been always kind even when I was quiet mean and provocative at the beginning of our marriage. He supported me during my Uni years and was an amazing husband throughout. Now where’s the problem?

A few years ago I realised that I want to be a SAHM even before I gave birth. I had a terrible morning sickness so I left my job and was the happiest woman ever. I spent my pregnancy doing lots of leisure activities and travelled with my husband. He expanded his business and started working long hours as a result. Financially we are comfortable and I don’t need to work however I went back to work because I wanted to. I’m very good at cooking and I enjoy it. My husband cooks occasionally but I’m the one who does most of it. I’m also a good cleaner despite it being the worst chore for me! Husband hates cleaning and he’s crap at it. I decided that I will hire a cleaner every now and then if I’m tired, and I will continue to be the main cook of the house. What this means is that I’m back to the traditional model that I promised myself that I won’t become!! However I’m okay with it!

It doesn’t bother me at all. I don’t contribute financially to the household at all and I spend most of my salary left and right however I want it. I save a lot as well and my husband thinks that every family works differently and that this is what works for us. We’re all happy this way. He’s the provider and he’s expected to pay for everything and support me if I decided to leave work again. I run the household and I became so much better at managing my time and efforts so that I’m not exhausted at the end of each day.

This morning my manager was telling me that women who leave work during pregnancy are holding other women back by acting like it’s a disability. She said that they shouldn’t do that and shouldn’t accept that their OH do nothing around the house. I told her about my situation and she raised her eyebrows saying it’s a shame that there are women like me still allowing men to get away with not doing anything. And she thought the fact that I don’t contribute is weird and controlling! I felt a bit upset at the language she used and for the fact that she thought I’m definitely not a feminist nor do I support women’s independence!

AIBU?

OP posts:
ScreamingBeans · 04/01/2023 21:35

I'd be disappointed in my manager saying that because it's bloody unprofessional, particularly the bit about your colleague going off early. Some women need to stop working early because of their pregnancies and demanding that pregnant women behave as though they are not pregnant, is not an exemplary feminist position.

As for you, sounds like you've got an ideal set up for you.

Peacelily38 · 04/01/2023 21:37

UniCred1 · 04/01/2023 21:27

That’s very unfortunate! I’m surprised that people select which choices women make are feminists and which ones aren’t. I’ve explained that I’m happy with the setting I used to criticise in the past. It works for me and my family. No argument no grudges both sides are happy.

Show quote history

Exactly the boxes are nonsense.

You do what makes you and your family happy that's the most important thing.

amispeakingintongues · 04/01/2023 21:49

Testina · 04/01/2023 21:10

You sound quite naïve to be honest, and I’m guessing mid to late 20s. Coming back when you’ve had another 10 years of cleaning up after him and see how 🥰 you feel then.

Or just read AIBU for a couple of weeks for a glimpse into that future self 😉

You sound incredibly bitter it's borderline embarrassing now. Leave the OP to her happy marriage 🥰

Glitteratitar · 04/01/2023 21:51

Your manager was an arse. You did and said nothing wrong.

I come from an Arab background myself but married a white guy. I had similar thoughts as you and was adamant things would be 50/50. My situation is also similar in that we both earn well but my salary is for me as DH’s is enough to support the household (I want my career so went back to work). In reality, the split is more 70/30. I think despite wanting to change things and being adamant we won’t fall into the traditional roles, as that is what we grew up with, it is somewhat ingrained and we end up fulfilling those roles. It’s harder to change than we realise and we may think it’s our choice, but in reality, we are perpetuating those gender stereotypes as it has been instilled in us our entire lives.

BadSkiingMum · 04/01/2023 22:02

This thread is intriguing because you have been given quite a hard time yet remain quite comfortable, even ebullient. You come across as happy, which is good to see.

What may be irritating others (perhaps even your boss?) is that you don't acknowledge that some of the happiness you experience in your current position is down to good fortune and/or potentially may alter in time. It is at that point that you may see the true nature of your current position.

Judging by the timelines given in your post you are in your mid-to-late twenties. Although marrying young, you had the opportunity to complete your education before becoming pregnant, which many women in traditional societies are not able to do. You are young, lively and probably attractive. Your husband is supportive of your views, because he is in love with you - which of course he is, so early on in a marriage. His love for you reciprocates your love for him. He is hardworking, ambitious and full of energy, so you are happy to care for him. Your job is enjoyable and you seem to have pleasant family around you. Everything is in balance and I hope for your sake that it continues.

But it would be wise to take a look around and reflect on how life looks for women who live in a traditional style but who are not so fortunate; women who have outlived their husband's love, who have a husband who does not treat them kindly, or who outright disrespects them via infidelity, boorish behaviour or abuse. Love fades and life happens - as many women on Mumsnet are only too aware.

If you have time, money or energy to spare, Southall Black Sisters, https://ikwro.org.uk/ or https://www.al-hasaniya.org.uk/about charities might be of interest.

Original poster
UniCred1 · 04/01/2023 22:18

Isthisit22 · 04/01/2023 20:57

Basically he's doing a shit job to get out of doing it.
Just hire a cleaner if you don't want to address his lack of care/ misogyny.

Show quote history

Misogyny? Wow is that how you live your life usually? Throwing insults at people you don’t know?
I wouldn’t get married to a misogynist if he was the king of the universe. Not once he spoke about women disrespectfully throughout 17 years of being together and 15 years of marriage.

OP posts:
Original poster
UniCred1 · 04/01/2023 22:23

Testina · 04/01/2023 21:00

“Again you are twisting what I said. I used “force” to talk about MY husband, not yours, not other men.”

No, not twisting it all.
I said some of us don’t have to force our husbands. Acknowledging that you do.
Just as you’ve just replied - YOUR husband.
Except you don’t have to force him, cos he got his way and you gave up “nagging” 🤷🏻‍♀️
You’re all smug about your perfect set up, but bottom line - you’re cleaning cos he won’t. Which a feminist will generally get pretty pissed off about.

Please don’t embarrass yourself by coming back again with the crap that he just can’t do it as well as you 🙄

My set up is far from perfect. But we’re happy the way it is. I’m happy the way it is. I’m managing it well with no pressure.

He doesn’t clean as good as I think it should be AND he works long hours and I don’t feel it’s fair on him to start the house chores after a long day at work. He cares about me a lot and I like to think that I return the love as much as I can.

OP posts:
Original poster
UniCred1 · 04/01/2023 22:26

Testina · 04/01/2023 21:02

”I got tired of being mad at him for doing shit jobs at home”

Good men don’t ever reach the point where their wife gets made at them. They show their love by stepping up. Yours didn’t.

I’m sure a lot would argue that good women do exactly just that. He’s crap at cleaning but a fantastic husband and father to my kids.

OP posts:
Original poster
UniCred1 · 04/01/2023 22:32

FormerAcademic · 04/01/2023 21:03

@UniCred1 When I gave up work to become a SAHM, my charming boss said it was a waste of someone so clever. Some bosses are complete prats. What you do has no bearing on anyone else. The only thing that matters is that it works for you and your family.

My god that’s really rude!! I once had a manager who told me that I don’t have to take the half terms off and should just use the holiday clubs because kids don’t remember these sacrifices. I was gobsmacked given that she has agreed the unpaid leave so that was so unnecessary to say. It’s my choice if I want to spend time with my kids during half terms.

OP posts:
NumberTheory · 04/01/2023 22:34

UniCred1 · 04/01/2023 22:23

My set up is far from perfect. But we’re happy the way it is. I’m happy the way it is. I’m managing it well with no pressure.

He doesn’t clean as good as I think it should be AND he works long hours and I don’t feel it’s fair on him to start the house chores after a long day at work. He cares about me a lot and I like to think that I return the love as much as I can.

Show quote history

I think a lot of people confuse the idea that traditional roles are at odds with respect or love for your partner. I don’t think that’s true. But love and respect in your marriage doesn’t make it a feminist marriage, though you may find it personally satisfying.

Original poster
UniCred1 · 04/01/2023 22:37

slashlover · 04/01/2023 21:06

Just to confirm - he can run a successful business but can't learn to wash a dish?

Show quote history

He can do the dishes but he doesn’t scrub them as he should do. Bad quick rushed cleaning. He thinks he’s washing everything so well. I used to inspect the dishes after he does them and nearly always re washed them straight after.

OP posts:
Original poster
UniCred1 · 04/01/2023 22:42

Testina · 04/01/2023 21:10

You sound quite naïve to be honest, and I’m guessing mid to late 20s. Coming back when you’ve had another 10 years of cleaning up after him and see how 🥰 you feel then.

Or just read AIBU for a couple of weeks for a glimpse into that future self 😉

Thank you I’ll take it as a compliment. Add ten years to your estimated guess. We’ve been having this set up for nearly a decade now. I’m getting more relaxed and managing it better than I thought every year.

OP posts:
Original poster
UniCred1 · 05/01/2023 08:37

Whowhatwherewhenwhynow · 04/01/2023 21:10

I agree with this.

looking after the home and children is a valid contribution to a family set up. If you are happy doing that while your husband is focusing on working longer to meet the families financial needs I don’t see an issue.

Of course these are “stereo typical”
roles, and you doing them is probably based in that in part. You can push against it if you don’t want to just for the sake of being considered a good enough feminist.

I never thought I’d ever go part time and be part at home while my husband is the main earner and doing full-time. However I actually like being part at home and sorting the house/having extra time with kids and my husband out wants me by a lot. Obviously our roles are affected by gender norms/stereo types (whatever you want to call it) but it works for us.

Show quote history

Exactly! It's just that. It works for us and that's what matters. It's not what I wanted when I was young but it's keeping everyone happy so far.

OP posts:
Original poster
UniCred1 · 05/01/2023 08:40

ClaryFairchild · 04/01/2023 21:15

Genuine question - what would your DH do if suddenly you weren't there/able to do your share?

Women aren't the only ones who can become single parents. If, God forbid, you does or developed a severe physical condition, what would he do?

My guess would be your family would step in and make sure your DC were ok and your DH would continue working all of of the day because "money is important". Perhaps he would even hire a nanny.

A man who works 70 hours a week is a shit husband and father. He's absent in all important ways.

You, on the other hand, would just co tiniest doing what you're doing if something happened to him, you would run around after your DC while juggling work but never doing too many hours to the detriment of your DC.

And that is that makes your DH a pathetic excuse for a "man".

Describe it in whatever way you want, but you are not furthering feminism, you're taking advantage of a patriarchal system because it happens to suit you.

I'd like to think in that event that he will step down and look after the children. No, he's not a shit husband or father. so far from it.

OP posts:
Original poster
UniCred1 · 05/01/2023 08:44

Testina · 04/01/2023 21:15

“My brother was in the army and I can’t thank them enough for how they transformed him.”

Why would you thank them? Why would you care whether he’s shown that yeah - when told to by other more senior men, that a man can learn to be clean?

*apologies if his commanding officer was a woman but… I think not

Because he became a better and more responsible individual.
I care because he's my brother and I love him.
You don't need to apologise because his commanders are men. It's just the reality in the army, especially in the non-western side of the world.

OP posts:
Original poster
UniCred1 · 05/01/2023 08:48

Schoolchoicesucks · 04/01/2023 21:22

Maybe you could sign your husband up for 4 years in the army? He'd learn how to clean. Maybe he'd have more quality time at home when on leave than with his current gruelling 70 hour 7 day week role?

Good idea. Have you considered who will be paying the bills and expenses in the meantime? I'm not willing to take the financial burden as I enjoy the 30 hrs a week I'm doing. He also disagrees with having an army in the first place and believes that they do more harm than good. At least they ruined our part of the world, which I understand is never going to be something you care about.

OP posts:
hattie43 · 05/01/2023 08:49

What a shame you now have western freedoms but still live like a chattel .

Original poster
UniCred1 · 05/01/2023 08:49

MarshaMelrose · 04/01/2023 21:22

You live your life how it makes you happy. It's no one else's business. I'm one of those lazy arse, useless housekeepers. My husband is much better at it than me. Who knows on a MN scoresheet if that makes me more or less a feminist?! And, honestly, who cares?

Show quote history

Good on you!! I think that's definitely make you a fantastic feminist on a MN scoresheet.

OP posts:
Original poster
UniCred1 · 05/01/2023 08:52

FOTTFSOFTFOASM · 04/01/2023 21:31

No one is actually crap at cleaning though are they

I am, by many people's standards. Clean loos, basins and kitchen sinks are necessary, but not much else. There are people on MN who clean their skirting boards and "mop" regularly. I have no idea what they're mopping.

Tiled and laminated areas should be mopped. Kitchen mopped every day. Bathrooms once or twice a week. Walls whenever they start to lose their fresh feeling.

OP posts:
Original poster
UniCred1 · 05/01/2023 08:54

amispeakingintongues · 04/01/2023 21:31

OP ignore her stupidly offensive and obviously jealous attitude. People like her love to call themselves feminists when in actual fact they just want women to behave like men. It's so ironic that it's utterly ridiculous.

She has no right to judge anyone and I expect she's a miserable person. Has she ever been on mat leave herself? I'd suspect not.

I too was the happiest woman in the world while a SAHM. And my aim in life is to afford to be one again by the time i have my second.

You're right! She's never been on mat leave.

OP posts:
Original poster
UniCred1 · 05/01/2023 08:57

Chickenly · 04/01/2023 21:31

Thank you - it was awful but (as the cliche) worth it. I still have serious pain in my teeth and gums, I’m still anaemic, my hair still has large bald patches and I still can’t cope with foods that are too spicy/salty/sour on my tongue. I’m still trying to build muscles back up. But I’m improving - and I’m ok. I just wish more people understood how awful pregnancy can be for some people and had a bit more understanding.

Show quote history

That's why women like you should always speak up and tell their stories about pregnancy issues. Yes it doesn't happen to every single woman but it HAPPENS. Quite strangely the criticism more than often comes from other women rather than men.

OP posts:
GCAcademic · 05/01/2023 08:58

Your manager needs reporting to HR for her comments about your colleague. She must be pretty bloody thick to come out with that in the workplace.

Original poster
UniCred1 · 05/01/2023 09:00

Glitteratitar · 04/01/2023 21:51

Your manager was an arse. You did and said nothing wrong.

I come from an Arab background myself but married a white guy. I had similar thoughts as you and was adamant things would be 50/50. My situation is also similar in that we both earn well but my salary is for me as DH’s is enough to support the household (I want my career so went back to work). In reality, the split is more 70/30. I think despite wanting to change things and being adamant we won’t fall into the traditional roles, as that is what we grew up with, it is somewhat ingrained and we end up fulfilling those roles. It’s harder to change than we realise and we may think it’s our choice, but in reality, we are perpetuating those gender stereotypes as it has been instilled in us our entire lives.

Thank you 💗If it works for you, that's what matters.

OP posts:
Original poster
UniCred1 · 05/01/2023 09:19

BadSkiingMum · 04/01/2023 22:02

This thread is intriguing because you have been given quite a hard time yet remain quite comfortable, even ebullient. You come across as happy, which is good to see.

What may be irritating others (perhaps even your boss?) is that you don't acknowledge that some of the happiness you experience in your current position is down to good fortune and/or potentially may alter in time. It is at that point that you may see the true nature of your current position.

Judging by the timelines given in your post you are in your mid-to-late twenties. Although marrying young, you had the opportunity to complete your education before becoming pregnant, which many women in traditional societies are not able to do. You are young, lively and probably attractive. Your husband is supportive of your views, because he is in love with you - which of course he is, so early on in a marriage. His love for you reciprocates your love for him. He is hardworking, ambitious and full of energy, so you are happy to care for him. Your job is enjoyable and you seem to have pleasant family around you. Everything is in balance and I hope for your sake that it continues.

But it would be wise to take a look around and reflect on how life looks for women who live in a traditional style but who are not so fortunate; women who have outlived their husband's love, who have a husband who does not treat them kindly, or who outright disrespects them via infidelity, boorish behaviour or abuse. Love fades and life happens - as many women on Mumsnet are only too aware.

If you have time, money or energy to spare, Southall Black Sisters, https://ikwro.org.uk/ or https://www.al-hasaniya.org.uk/about charities might be of interest.

Thank you. I enjoyed reading that :)
Just to clarify I'm mid to late thirties and we've been married for 15 years, engaged 2 years before that.
I think my husband is supportive of my views because of how he views things. He agrees with me that women in our society are at a big disadvantage and that things should change so that more women have the opportunity to be educated and have a career, if that's what they want. He has a great relationship with his mother and sisters and that was a very attractive thing for me to see in my future husband. I didn't have that relationship with my brother when I was a teen as he would always undermine my opinions and make fun of how "stupid" I was. Things have changed a lot and now he understands he was wrong and misogynistic.
He grew up in a household where the mother, albeit illiterate and never set foot in a school, was directing the dynamics of the family and is a very strong minded woman. His dad was, and still really, doing as he's told. My family is the opposite, both mum and dad are educated to degree level and have good jobs, but the first and last say was always my dad's. I hated it because he held old fashioned views and more than often we weren't allowed to do things he didn't approve of. My female in-laws grew up doing whatever they want, whenever they want. My mil never asked fil for his opinion or approval.

I was a volunteer with one of the charities you listed above whilst being a SAHM :)

OP posts:
Original poster
UniCred1 · 05/01/2023 09:20

NumberTheory · 04/01/2023 22:34

I think a lot of people confuse the idea that traditional roles are at odds with respect or love for your partner. I don’t think that’s true. But love and respect in your marriage doesn’t make it a feminist marriage, though you may find it personally satisfying.

Show quote history

I never said that.

OP posts:
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