To feel disappointed in my manager telling me I’m not supporting women??

[UniCred1]

Okay please bear with me. I come from an Arab country. I watched women being treated like second class citizens since my childhood and promised myself that I’m never gonna let that happen to me. I supported women in my area as a volunteer since I was 14 years old. I’m always vocal when I see male relatives making misogynistic jokes and a lot of them stopped saying anything like that in front of me. I kind of gained a reputation of being “strange” “not feminine enough” within the family but I honestly don’t care.

When I got married, I informed my husband that I don’t want a traditional marriage like back home. That he will be expected to work just as much as I do in the house. That I won’t be a maid and won’t be the official chef of the household. That my opinions won’t change overnight and I’m quiet stubborn. He didn’t have any issue with that and tbh he has been always kind even when I was quiet mean and provocative at the beginning of our marriage. He supported me during my Uni years and was an amazing husband throughout. Now where’s the problem?

A few years ago I realised that I want to be a SAHM even before I gave birth. I had a terrible morning sickness so I left my job and was the happiest woman ever. I spent my pregnancy doing lots of leisure activities and travelled with my husband. He expanded his business and started working long hours as a result. Financially we are comfortable and I don’t need to work however I went back to work because I wanted to. I’m very good at cooking and I enjoy it. My husband cooks occasionally but I’m the one who does most of it. I’m also a good cleaner despite it being the worst chore for me! Husband hates cleaning and he’s crap at it. I decided that I will hire a cleaner every now and then if I’m tired, and I will continue to be the main cook of the house. What this means is that I’m back to the traditional model that I promised myself that I won’t become!! However I’m okay with it!

It doesn’t bother me at all. I don’t contribute financially to the household at all and I spend most of my salary left and right however I want it. I save a lot as well and my husband thinks that every family works differently and that this is what works for us. We’re all happy this way. He’s the provider and he’s expected to pay for everything and support me if I decided to leave work again. I run the household and I became so much better at managing my time and efforts so that I’m not exhausted at the end of each day.

This morning my manager was telling me that women who leave work during pregnancy are holding other women back by acting like it’s a disability. She said that they shouldn’t do that and shouldn’t accept that their OH do nothing around the house. I told her about my situation and she raised her eyebrows saying it’s a shame that there are women like me still allowing men to get away with not doing anything. And she thought the fact that I don’t contribute is weird and controlling! I felt a bit upset at the language she used and for the fact that she thought I’m definitely not a feminist nor do I support women’s independence!

AIBU?

I work 5 days a week / 30 hrs.

This is why I don't subscribe to feminism because it's often on a purity spiral and there are certain boxes you have to fit into or you are ousted.
It isn't actually kind or good to women and doesn't value motherhood.
Saying things like you let yourself down is absolute nonsense and downright nasty.
I support women's rights but I don't subscribe to the crap like putting down a woman for living her life how her and her family is happy to live it.

I mentioned that because it’s an important detail. Imagine if I was working and expected to contribute and can’t take time off work to become a SAHM AND do all the usual housework.

@LaughingCat can you say a bit more about how OPs private domestic set up improves the position of other women or supports them in any way?
How her choice to live this way positively impacts on the choices open to other women?
I defend her right to choose her lifestyle obviously, but to suggest her choice is benefitting other women seems a bit of a reach.

For over a year he worked nearly 7 days a week. I can count on one hand the Sundays he was off. It’s just the nature of running your own business unfortunately. Things have improved a lot since then, but he works mostly 6 days a week.

@Peacelily38 the thing about feminism is that there are certain ideas and concepts that are fairly fundamental to it. And sometimes, people state they are feminists whilst also stating views that don't fit in with those fairly fundamental feminist concepts. Like this manager. The criticism of pregnant women who take leave is not a feminist position. Feminism is supportive of women due to them bearing the burden of reproducing. So feminism would look at ways to balance this burden for women in the workplace to address this inequality. Feminism isn't about discouraging women from taking maternity leave.

Similarly, one individual woman in her personal circumstances might decide that its best for her and her family for her male partner to be the sole financial provider and for the woman to be responsible for all household and child related activities. But that's not a feminist fundamental concept. That's a personal choice and isn't an example of feminism in action.

“had a friend who used to do everything at home because his wife was lazy.”

Gosh, isn’t it useful that you’ve got an opposite example for that, as well as for the role reversal sibling / in law 🤣

Just that by openly advocating for women to make their own choices, whatever those happen to be, and supporting women to do so (as she did with the colleague who went on maternity leave early), is indeed supporting other women. I may be completely wrong, but from her posts it feels like the OP would have supported a woman who wanted to work until contractions as well, if that was her choice. Or a woman who wanted to do shared parental leave and have the minimum at home.

The point was by making your choices and openly living them without shame and supporting others to do the same by allowing them to be themselves without judgement…that is far more supportive of women than those, like the manager, who advise ‘disappointment’ at other women’s choices because they wouldn’t have made the same or because the ‘optics are bad’.

The OP didn’t advocate for women taking on traditional roles…she advocated for finding what works for you and supporting that.

Again you are twisting what I said. I used “force” to talk about MY husband, not yours, not other men. He didn’t get a free pass because he has a penis. I got tired of being mad at him for doing shit jobs at home. And yes I know, a lot of women will say that as long as he does it and the place is decent that’s fine. But no. That doesn’t work for ME. I want a sparkly clean house after it’s been cleaned. I don’t want it half clean. I don’t want to see streaks on the worktop, or dust under the oil burner or a carpet that isn’t vacuumed at the corners or around the skirting board. It’s just how I do my cleaning. I don’t settle for the “cleaning” done at work by the cleaners either and I clean my space every week myself because I won’t type on a dusty keyboard or sit on a chair with dirty base. Some people think these details are not important and that’s fine, but not for me. My husband is one of those.

Why do you both work so much if you don't need the money?
Tbh it is not fair or feminist for you to work full time and still do all cleaning etc. You should either hire a cleaner or share chores more fairly. It is not your fault he chooses to work such long hours.

Basically he's doing a shit job to get out of doing it.
Just hire a cleaner if you don't want to address his lack of care/ misogyny.

100% agree with @LaughingCat

This is why I can never get on board with the feminist movement as such even though I see myself very much a feminist. So many so called feminists here have just put down OPs lifestyle choice that she clearly says she is happy and content with. Feminism is about having the choice as a woman to live the way that you want.

Your boss was out of order for 1.- discussing another employee in a negative way, extremely unprofessional
2- voicing her opinion to her employee about their lifestyle choices and whether she believes she is enough of a feminist or not 😕

Thank you for replying. Yes, I understand the point you are making. In the practical and sense the OP supports women.

I’m speechless at how much of a grave impact an emoji with three hearts can have on women’s struggles.

Practical and personal sense.

“Again you are twisting what I said. I used “force” to talk about MY husband, not yours, not other men.”

No, not twisting it all.
I said some of us don’t have to force our husbands. Acknowledging that you do.
Just as you’ve just replied - YOUR husband.
Except you don’t have to force him, cos he got his way and you gave up “nagging” 🤷🏻‍♀️
You’re all smug about your perfect set up, but bottom line - you’re cleaning cos he won’t. Which a feminist will generally get pretty pissed off about.

Please don’t embarrass yourself by coming back again with the crap that he just can’t do it as well as you 🙄

”I got tired of being mad at him for doing shit jobs at home”

Good men don’t ever reach the point where their wife gets made at them. They show their love by stepping up. Yours didn’t.

Yes. Things have improved recently but it was absolutely crazy for around two years. He used to come home 1 hour before their bedtime which isn’t enough of course. He didn’t have a choice given his work schedule at the time.

Just off-topic, but when I saw you had responded, I realised I was gritting my teeth as there’ve been a few really combative threads on MN tonight and I was fully expecting to get both barrels in response, and so I was steeling myself to take a hit of verbal abuse and quietly finding another thread. Thank you, @5128gap for restoring my faith in reasoned and calm debate!

@UniCred1 When I gave up work to become a SAHM, my charming boss said it was a waste of someone so clever. Some bosses are complete prats. What you do has no bearing on anyone else. The only thing that matters is that it works for you and your family.

Exactly as I said so it doesn't support women doing what they want for themselves so it isn't supportive of women only if they fit in the box they want them to.
It's not supporting the fact women reproduce because by that very nature it's deemed a burden, having a baby isn't a burden its a gift.
Its not inequality to not go straight back to work it's doing something that you believe is best for your baby and your family.

It's not supportive of women to say they have let women down, it's nasty and it's spiteful.

That's why so many don't want to subscribe to it because it doesn't consider women's feelings and needs, just the black and white concept of women should go back to work and share housework 50/50 regardless of how hard your husband works, if he works 7 days a week he should still do 50/50 housework somehow.
It doesn't take into account reality and the difference between men and women and what they both bring and need in a family situation.
It's not supportive of alot of women and real life.

Just to confirm - he can run a successful business but can't learn to wash a dish?

Your manager sounds a bit fixed in her view of what will support women. But she’s not wrong that women who fall into the domestic role help reinforce the social structures that make it harder for women (and men) to break out of gendered roles and expectations in relationships and the workplace.

I’ve done the same, OP, but I’m not kidding myself about the fact so many women like you and me take up the domestic burden frees up men to do more in the public sphere and that has a big impact on the expectations society holds for all men and women.

No one is actually crap at cleaning though are they, it's not something that requires talent. They are just lazy and can't be arsed and usually know that someone else will do it for them.

OP, you are being taken for a fool if you believe that your DH is actually crap at cleaning. Dusting around stuff is being lazy, it's not that he is somehow incapable of doing it properly, he just doesn't want to.

I’m pretty crap at cleaning. I don’t have the reach my DH does. But tell a man they’re better at cleaning because they have the physical stature for it and they’ll look at you like you have three heads!