School residential, school have said they have to go

[Y4GoingAway]

School Year 4, but it’s a first school so the final year at the school.

Apparently it’s compulsory and there is no provision in school for those who don’t go as the class teachers plus several other staff go.

I don’t want DD to go. She has a genetic condition that affects her muscles and joints. She also has an EHCP due to SN (not ASD)

The trip is canoeing and rock climbing and zip lining and orienteering. Which all sound great but schools only adjustment for DDs condition is she can sit out if she wants to, which she won’t because she never does for Forest School or PE or anything else physical, school say they cannot force DD to sit out. They have PE, Forest School and the morning mile in one day at school and DDs generally screaming in pain by 2pm, I’ve asked for her to sit out of Forest School and the mile but been told that it’s up to DD to decide and she wants to be like her friends so will push herself until she can’t cope anymore – she’s missed school the next day because of the pain and school just shrug and say she needs to tell them when she wants to sit out, while in the next breath saying she seems to refuse to acknowledge her condition as she won’t talk about it!

This isn’t about DD being away overnight, she stays away from me with ExH EOWend for 1 night and he usually takes her away for 3-4 days in the summer holidays plus she’s just done a 3 day pack holiday with Brownies. Also it’s not a cost thing, the trip itself is free, we’re being asked to donate to transport there and back either by paying school for the bus or getting our DC there ourselves.
Brownies where brilliant, they let her choose one active activity per day and then put her in the group that wasn’t doing that activity after she’d done it, so she did crafts or similar, all the girls where given the same opportunity to sit out so no-one knew why DD only did 1 per day – and we’ve agreed that next time she goes she’ll do different activities so she’s tried different things which is a great compromise. Brownies also kept her topped up on her pain medication which school refuse to give her.

They’ve told me they have no provision for giving pain relief on the trip which is the same in school. They’ve also said if children sit out of an activity they will just have to watch everyone else do it, there’s no staffing for them to have a group at the centre they’re staying in doing something else – I even said DD would be happy to do worksheets or similar.

And before anyone says “But there’s more going with school” there’s the same number at Brownies and Brownies had a bigger age range as school only take the 90 year 4s, whereas Brownies had 60 Brownies (7-10 year olds), 30 guides (10-14 year olds), and a couple of Rainbows (7 year olds) who’re ready to move to Brownies soon.

School have said if she doesn’t go they will not be providing alternative work, she will be the only one in her entire year not going and she will be supervised by “whichever member off staff is free”. She does have 1-1 TA for parts of the day and one of her two 1-1s won’t be going and I’ve offered to get her tutor she has outside of school to provide work (tutor has already offered) and I’ve been told again the trip is compulsory. Apparently they've never had anyone not go ever.

So AIBU and just have to suck it up? The trip is after half term.

That’s not true. If they don’t have adequate staff then they can’t provide 1:1 care for a full residential trip. I’ve already explained upthread why some schools can better support certain kids, but the bottom line is money.

This may be helpful (chapter 6) especially section 6.59

www.equalityhumanrights.com/en/publication-download/technical-guidance-schools-england

And I would recommend contacting someone like sossen or the Coram child law advice line who can offer free legal advice re the situation.

With every respect, that is nonsense. If that is how your former school operated, and if it was any time within the last 20 years, the school was acting unlawfully. By law, the school has to provide education. It cannot make trips compulsory, and when planning any trip it has to make provision for those children who cannot go for any reason.

I mean, I’m not privy to any of this information so I’m guessing but a lot of trips have a minimum-term booking so maybe they have to go for four? But regardless, saving money on the trip doesn’t mean they can employ a full-time member of staff for three days.

Someone upthread nailed it though - they need OPs DD's 1:1 to go on the trip for ratios. This is where the compulsory bullshit is coming from. That is a problem of the schools own making and it needs calling out.

It’s not, it’s funding.

Usually in these things there are small groups of children who rotate through the activities. There’s 90 in the year so there will be qui tree a few things happening at once. I think a reasonable adjustment that you could ask for is to choose the most suitable sessions each morning and afternoon. So if there’s something lower impact like swimming or archery. Also get in touch with the centre if they are climbing and then zip wire back down then they may have facilities to just hoist her up and let her zip wire down. If you look at the activities and none are suitable (unlikely!) I’d maybe think about her not going. They have to make accommodation for her in school although it won’t necessarily be the most challenging work. I don’t believe for a second that they’ve never had a child not go as not all 8 year olds want to do activity holidays for 5 days! Seems a shame for her not to go if she wants to, they do need to make adjustments where they can

I mean the problem is funding, not that it’s a problem of the school’s own making. I’d imagine they’d love some additional staff.

Then they choose a different trip that they can afford to do inclusively

'Reasonable adjustments' is always going to be a subjective call so @Pumperthepumper is right in saying that. In my personal experience, however, a school is very very unlikely to win an argument against healthcare professionals over an issue pertaining to healthcare…

From the information @Y4GoingAway has given us, I think this sounds like a school which doesn't understand its obligations, or potential liabilities, with regard to children covered by the 2010 Equality Act and if I were the OP I'd be challenging them strongly on it. And as @Englishash says, definitely ask to see their risk assessment – this will give you a very good clue as to whether they are being cavalier in their attitude towards disabilities.

I'm sure it's fine for OP's child to be accommodated in another class, provided that she gets the 1:1 support she's entitled to and work is appropriately differentiated. Schools can't just opt out of educating because they've decided to go for a residential.

The Brownies comparison is a valid one, as the school is trying to suggest that it cannot administer painkillers when needed, whereas the Brownies leaders manage it perfectly well.

It's not compulsory, because that's not legal!

If you don't give your consent, if they keep her after whatever the usual school finishing time is... legally, that's kidnap. As a school, they can't take a child from their legal guardian without consent.
An over-night trip can never be compulsory because they can't legally keep hold of a child overnight without your permission, and you haven't given it.

It's frankly bad form that they are not accommodating your dds needs.
Depending how far you want to push it, try contacting the chair of governors with your concerns, and after that, your local authority.

You can just keep her at home on the day of the trip. Say she's sick and they can't do a thing about it.

But again, this is a PTA-funded trip, so I’d imagine it’s because this place offers a heavy discount. Which few places do.

Exactly. My school now does that. If you cant afford to include all your children properly. You do something else completley.

Funding is the underlying problem, yes. Their solutions are their decisions. Either you start from a point of view that is inclusive, or not. They haven't.

What do you mean ‘win’ against a healthcare professional? What does winning look like if they don’t have the staff to support the OP’s kid?

Then they choose a different activity within the PTAs budget that can be delivered inclusively

But what’s a solution? What does that solution look like, if they can’t supply staff or training?

Which would mean no residential, likely as not.

Your daughter is still so young but perhaps she needs to start acknowledging what she can and can't do without painful consequences, and recognising that she cannot do everything her friends can. It's not nice and it's not fair.... but she is going to encounter this type of issue in life.
If she wants to go on the trip, can you ask for the schedule of activities and pick and choose to plan a personal schedule with DD that she will be able to manage. It's really not fair but she will have to learn how to manage her condition and this could be a good place to start?
Only if she wants to go. Otherwise, if she really doesn't want to go, I'd be speaking to the head or the Academy head or the LEA about adequate provision in school.
They're claiming the trip is compulsory because they don't want the bother of providing for children who can't/ don't want to go.

OP isn't asking for that. She's asking for reasonable adjustments to enable her DD to go on the trip and participate safely and without pain, or failing that that she doesn't have to go at all.

The school has to have options in place for pupils who can't go for any reason. Those options may include accommodating the children in question in another class, provided that they are taught and not just left with worksheets all day. It's not an adequate excuse for failing to comply with their legal duties just say "Well, the school trip is compulsory so it's not our fault".

I hope one of the other posters' advice can be taken on board and lead to the appropriate outcome for your DC.

@FountainOfOof The problem is DD doesn't want her friends to know about the condition so she will just do it regardless of pain, which is why Brownies offered her an alternative activity and checked in with her while she was doing the physical activities to make sure she was comfortable and they absolutely ensured she was never in a position of choosing to put herself in pain to "save face" she's only 8 after all.

DD learnt a lot about herself with the Brownies Holiday, including her own limits but still wants to have ago with her friends. If the alternative is watching her friends have ago and her not DD will not sit there and watch them, she'd be up there with them.

Do a different trip? (using the aforementioned absent imagination) Do a shorter trip that costs less to ensure you can afford it? Plan a bit better so you are not put in a position of having to retrofit access, inadequately? Find the money to train the staff (PTA can fund that too). Ensure you don't employ ableist decision-makers?

Do you work their @Pumperthepumper you seem hellbent on defending these uninclusive decisions......

It all sucks and is part of a bigger picture of cuts whittling away at everyone's rights and quality of life.