School residential, school have said they have to go

[Y4GoingAway]

School Year 4, but it’s a first school so the final year at the school.

Apparently it’s compulsory and there is no provision in school for those who don’t go as the class teachers plus several other staff go.

I don’t want DD to go. She has a genetic condition that affects her muscles and joints. She also has an EHCP due to SN (not ASD)

The trip is canoeing and rock climbing and zip lining and orienteering. Which all sound great but schools only adjustment for DDs condition is she can sit out if she wants to, which she won’t because she never does for Forest School or PE or anything else physical, school say they cannot force DD to sit out. They have PE, Forest School and the morning mile in one day at school and DDs generally screaming in pain by 2pm, I’ve asked for her to sit out of Forest School and the mile but been told that it’s up to DD to decide and she wants to be like her friends so will push herself until she can’t cope anymore – she’s missed school the next day because of the pain and school just shrug and say she needs to tell them when she wants to sit out, while in the next breath saying she seems to refuse to acknowledge her condition as she won’t talk about it!

This isn’t about DD being away overnight, she stays away from me with ExH EOWend for 1 night and he usually takes her away for 3-4 days in the summer holidays plus she’s just done a 3 day pack holiday with Brownies. Also it’s not a cost thing, the trip itself is free, we’re being asked to donate to transport there and back either by paying school for the bus or getting our DC there ourselves.
Brownies where brilliant, they let her choose one active activity per day and then put her in the group that wasn’t doing that activity after she’d done it, so she did crafts or similar, all the girls where given the same opportunity to sit out so no-one knew why DD only did 1 per day – and we’ve agreed that next time she goes she’ll do different activities so she’s tried different things which is a great compromise. Brownies also kept her topped up on her pain medication which school refuse to give her.

They’ve told me they have no provision for giving pain relief on the trip which is the same in school. They’ve also said if children sit out of an activity they will just have to watch everyone else do it, there’s no staffing for them to have a group at the centre they’re staying in doing something else – I even said DD would be happy to do worksheets or similar.

And before anyone says “But there’s more going with school” there’s the same number at Brownies and Brownies had a bigger age range as school only take the 90 year 4s, whereas Brownies had 60 Brownies (7-10 year olds), 30 guides (10-14 year olds), and a couple of Rainbows (7 year olds) who’re ready to move to Brownies soon.

School have said if she doesn’t go they will not be providing alternative work, she will be the only one in her entire year not going and she will be supervised by “whichever member off staff is free”. She does have 1-1 TA for parts of the day and one of her two 1-1s won’t be going and I’ve offered to get her tutor she has outside of school to provide work (tutor has already offered) and I’ve been told again the trip is compulsory. Apparently they've never had anyone not go ever.

So AIBU and just have to suck it up? The trip is after half term.

God we had to fight these sorts of battle 15 years ago, can't believe nothing's changed in that time! It sounds like certain teachers at the school have no knowledge or understanding of disability discrimination @Y4GoingAway, you will have to educate them (oh the irony). It's quite simple really, under the 2010 Equality Act, the school has to make reasonable adjustments, failure to do so is illegal. Therefore, they HAVE to ensure that your DD has the opportunity to take a break if she needs one. There aren't any exceptions to this.

And @Pumperthepumper however much sympathy I have for the teachers and the lack of funding and resources, none of that trumps the law as it currently stands. If sufficient resources cannot be provided then the trip does not take place at all; again this is pretty clear in the legislation. I suspect the school know this and that's why they are trying to say the trip is 'compulsory' because if OP kicks up a fuss and insists that under the circumstances it isn't safe for her DD to go, the school has a legal obligation to provide her with alternative education back in school. If that means there aren't sufficient resources for the residential trip to go ahead because of staff-pupil ratios, then that is what has to happen.

@Parrotid sadly the school does not legally have to take responsibility for the administration of medicines, including insulin. Using the Brownie analogy on this thread, our Brownie pack were very good at making reasonable adjustments for DD but couldn't find anyone willing to her insulin injections – fair enough, it is a big responsibility. So she had to learn to do them (and her fingerprick blood sugar monitoring) herself at the age of 7 in order to go on her Brownie camp.

But do these accommodations need money? Someone to give medicine and for some activities to be less physical and ensuring this child picks those activities. Think about the cohort when planning - its not always about expensive support and i say that with the user name spend on send!

This is just what I said upthread. It's really important.

School have said if she doesn’t go they will not be providing alternative work, she will be the only one in her entire year not going and she will be supervised by “whichever member off staff is free”.

Is this unreasonable? Seems ok to me as the other kids won’t be getting alternative school work either.

If sufficient resources cannot be provided then the trip does not take place at all; again this is pretty clear in the legislation.

I dont think that’s true. I think they just have to make ‘reasonable adjustments* and the OP’s kid being there could be considered ‘reasonable’ (although shit for her) because she’s physically on the trip. Again, I’m not saying that is reasonable.

I’d bet that it’s worse now than it was fifteen years ago, especially in education.

I don’t think it is a reasonable adjustment as it excludes her from the learning and is potentially damaging socially and emotionally.

Yes. They’d need an allocated staff member who’s trained in administering medicine. They’d also need different staff ratios to either give the OP’s kid one-on-one support or take a smaller group. And more staff equals more money.

I don’t think it is either because she’s not able to take part in the trip, but ‘reasonable’ is a very broad term.

Are you in Bedfordshire?

Make a complaint to the Local Authority SEND team about it. They are not being inclusive and are discriminating against her.

Alternatively, take her out of school for a few days at the same time as the trip and go on a nice, relaxing break away together instead. That would be nicer than sat alone in school not doing much for hours on end.

It’s this. Her 1-1 is needed on the trip, hence telling you it’s “compulsory”.

Fuck. That.

It's not free- parents have to pay for transport. The school has to provide full time education, which includes providing for pupils who can't go on the trip. Just saying it's compulsory is meaningless and doesn't absolve them of that duty.

Saying that OP's child doesn't have to participate doesn't tick any boxes. They have a duty to keep her safe, which includes making sure that she does not over-exert and exacerbate her condition, and making further adjustments to ensure that she can take part as much as possible, and that, if she does, she is safe. Reasonable adjustments also include being prepared to give her medication when she needs it, and having someone trained to look out for her. If Brownies can manage it, the school can.

They know they cant force her. They're trying to bully you into it.

They're showing themselves to be utterly lacking in compassion. They won't give her pain relief on a trip that's likely to cause her pain due to a disability? I wouldn't treat a dog like that.

Put in a complaint.

I think if it was only one activity the daughter had to sit out of, and she could take part in all other activities and events on the trip then they could possibly argue it was a reasonable adjustment. But if she has to sit out of everything, particularly if this is down to their refusal to administer medicine, then I don't think it counts as reasonable adjustment.

I really don’t think pulling her out is any sort of solution. The girl is 8 and wants to go. She has been on a similar holiday and really enjoyed it.
It’s their leavers trip. Everyone going. It will be talk of the school.
My DCs primary yearbook had photos from the trip and they put them on screen in leavers assembly.

Put the cat amongst the pigeons and ask to see the risk assessment.

Being there or sitting out is not a reasonable adjustment

It is though. She’s on the trip, the adjustment is she can’t take part. It’s garbage, but it’s true.

And that is misinformation in itself. Duties under the Equality Act are not dependent on whether the school thinks it has adequate staff. The school is already part funded for 1:1, and it's not as if OP is asking for a lot - either her DD stays in school, in which case the likelihood is that she can be accommodated in another class, or she has someone on the trip who is basically keeping an eye on her to make sure she doesn't over-exert and takes painkillers when necessary.

If the school doesn't choose to comply with the Equality Act, it will sooner or later find itself on the wrong end of a discrimination appeal and a formal referral to Ofsted. If other schools can manage to run EqA-compliant trips, why can't this one?

The school are saying it's compulsory for her to go, that they won't stop her from doing certain activities, but if by doing those activities she is then in pain they won't let her have any medication to help her? My child would not be going, and all mine went to an activity, outdoor bound type place when they were in year 6, one had JIA then, but only did things she felt comfortable with and wasn't pushed to do anything she didn't want to do. I seem to think there were alternatives they could take part in instead.

I can't see how a residential can be compulsory - apart from anything else you've got to pay for it, so you just don't and you don't fill out the consent form. The worst that can happen is that it gets marked down as unauthorised absence but so what?

DS had a residential in Y8 that he didn't want to go to. However, we got conned into it (sort of) because there was another trip that he did want to go on, but he didn't get picked in the ballot. So the school said "oh we'll just use the deposit for the camping trip". Grrr. I could have refused but it would have been a lot of hassle. He still complains about having to go though (it was when the Brexit referendum happened and there was a tremendous thunderstorm that night - delicious camping weather!)

Making reasonable adjustments would be giving her alternative activities less likely to cause pain or additional help and support during the activity. Sitting out is not an adjustment it is exclusion.

Why do you assume they haven't got staff? There is nothing in the OP's posts indicating that that is their reasoning.

Most school years will have one or two pupils for whom reasonable adjustments need to be made under the Equality Act 2010, and they know they have to take these into account when planning residential trips. I remember one with my children's school where there was a child who had a complicated pump feeding regime, and they manage it. If the school can't comply with those duties, it shouldn't be running the trip.

Oh I've just seen it's free but as they'll ask for money for transport, that's where you refuse.

How on earth is it free though, where on earth is the funding for it coming from?

I dont understand why picking some quiet activities requires one to one support or smaller staff ratios. These places normally have a range on offer so you pick ones suitable for your cohort when booking. Administering medicines is tricky as you need a volunteer, but the course is a short online course that many schools will have as part of a package with TES, National College or The Key. And if not, its peanuts. My school was found to be in the wrong for not considering its cohort when planning a trip (where i work) its changed its practice now.

@Pumperthepumper If the PTA can afford to pay for all of this they can afford the minimal costs of additional provisions. Its a 4 night trip! for 8 year olds! presumably 3 nights would be cheaper. The school have ignored her needs in planning this - that is exactly what I mean by lack of imagination. Anyway hopefully OP will escalate it. I know you are coming from a place of saying the impact of cuts to education is disproportionately affecting SEND kids, and you are right. But that doesn't mean the school can ignore those needs.