School residential, school have said they have to go

[Y4GoingAway]

School Year 4, but it’s a first school so the final year at the school.

Apparently it’s compulsory and there is no provision in school for those who don’t go as the class teachers plus several other staff go.

I don’t want DD to go. She has a genetic condition that affects her muscles and joints. She also has an EHCP due to SN (not ASD)

The trip is canoeing and rock climbing and zip lining and orienteering. Which all sound great but schools only adjustment for DDs condition is she can sit out if she wants to, which she won’t because she never does for Forest School or PE or anything else physical, school say they cannot force DD to sit out. They have PE, Forest School and the morning mile in one day at school and DDs generally screaming in pain by 2pm, I’ve asked for her to sit out of Forest School and the mile but been told that it’s up to DD to decide and she wants to be like her friends so will push herself until she can’t cope anymore – she’s missed school the next day because of the pain and school just shrug and say she needs to tell them when she wants to sit out, while in the next breath saying she seems to refuse to acknowledge her condition as she won’t talk about it!

This isn’t about DD being away overnight, she stays away from me with ExH EOWend for 1 night and he usually takes her away for 3-4 days in the summer holidays plus she’s just done a 3 day pack holiday with Brownies. Also it’s not a cost thing, the trip itself is free, we’re being asked to donate to transport there and back either by paying school for the bus or getting our DC there ourselves.
Brownies where brilliant, they let her choose one active activity per day and then put her in the group that wasn’t doing that activity after she’d done it, so she did crafts or similar, all the girls where given the same opportunity to sit out so no-one knew why DD only did 1 per day – and we’ve agreed that next time she goes she’ll do different activities so she’s tried different things which is a great compromise. Brownies also kept her topped up on her pain medication which school refuse to give her.

They’ve told me they have no provision for giving pain relief on the trip which is the same in school. They’ve also said if children sit out of an activity they will just have to watch everyone else do it, there’s no staffing for them to have a group at the centre they’re staying in doing something else – I even said DD would be happy to do worksheets or similar.

And before anyone says “But there’s more going with school” there’s the same number at Brownies and Brownies had a bigger age range as school only take the 90 year 4s, whereas Brownies had 60 Brownies (7-10 year olds), 30 guides (10-14 year olds), and a couple of Rainbows (7 year olds) who’re ready to move to Brownies soon.

School have said if she doesn’t go they will not be providing alternative work, she will be the only one in her entire year not going and she will be supervised by “whichever member off staff is free”. She does have 1-1 TA for parts of the day and one of her two 1-1s won’t be going and I’ve offered to get her tutor she has outside of school to provide work (tutor has already offered) and I’ve been told again the trip is compulsory. Apparently they've never had anyone not go ever.

So AIBU and just have to suck it up? The trip is after half term.

Have sent an email to the centre, and have also left a message with physio.

Will update when I know whats happening.

Have you discussed with them how brownie's made it OK for her? Maybe they just don't know what to do?
If you have, then I think she should stay at school and perhaps join the year 3 class for those days

As far as I’m aware, PTA funding can’t be used for staff training, and you wouldn’t want that anyway because it would mean the government can cut funding further.

No, I don’t work there. I’m trying to explain why this isn’t a simple ‘the school can’t be bothered, you should bring up the equalities act!’ type of fight. They know. They will be fully aware how shit it is for a disabled or SEN kid to be educated in mainstream education.

Just to be clear: I’m not defending anyone. I’m explaining why winding the OP up about making a fuss and speaking to governors won’t change anything. The best thing you can do is lobby for changes in education. And write to your MP, always.

On what planet is it compulsory?

No is no. She’s not going and that’s the end of it.

One problem is that schools for some reason don't inform themselves about the legal situation. If they don't have enough funding to meet the needs of pupils with SEN, then they need to apply for EHCPs and support parents with appeals if necessary to ensure that EHCPs provide for adequate support and are properly specified. If they still don't have enough funding for the provision in the EHCP, then they need to support parents to take judicial review action to enforce it. Local authorities have an absolute statutory duty to secure special educational provision in EHCPs, but for some reason too many schools let them off the hook.

My daughter has a rare bone/joint condition which affects her mobility and asd and she won't be going on her school residential trips, the school she's at seem to constantly "forget" about her condition as she can walk(but not far and is very slow) ect so I won't be sending her.
It's her last year op book it off n keep her at home x

No. We already do this.

If they still don't have enough funding for the provision in the EHCP, then they need to support parents to take judicial review action to enforce it.

We do this too. But it takes a lot of time, which is then time out of actually educating children. School staff should not be employed to support parents through anything. This is yet another example of schools baring the brunt of cuts.

Why do you think schools ‘let them off the hook’? What’s your theory about those ‘reasons’ they would do that?

If they don't have the staff, they either need to employ more to cover the requirements of OP's child, or change the nature of the trip, or cancel it altogether. You keep talking about funding like it's a decisive argument. It isn't. Try arguing in a court that you don't have the money to abide by disability discrimination legislation and see how far you get!

This is not a criticism of individual teachers, I'm sure they are as frustrated by a lack of funds as parents, probably more so. But someone here has failed to grasp their legal obligations – either the HT or the school manager (if it has one). They clearly need to be reminded what they are.

No, just having the disabled child sitting on the side isn't a reasonable adjustment, especially given that she's perfectly capable of taking part provided that she's not allowed to become overtired and exacerbate her condition. But even if she couldn't take part it wouldn't be reasonable, because schools should plan activities so that they can include disabled children as much as is reasonably possible; having them watching from the sidelines doesn't comply with that duty.

How are they going to employ more staff with no money?

Sitting out is not a reasonable adjustment. In the same way, it wouldn’t be reasonable to say she can sit in a classroom with no adjustments made to help her access learning/activities.

Of course we all know schools are underfunded. However, they booked a trip that they must have known would exclude a pupil from participating in. Being there is not reasonably participating.

It does though, I’ve already explained this. ‘Reasonable’ is a very broad concept, and it’s easy to see how this could be written as ‘OP’s kid was able to attend the trip’.

Why is the trip free anyway? Are most kids on FSM? In which case I absolutely support this.

If not, parents should be paying the cost, with help for those who can’t afford it.

Good luck OP!

I also wanted to say if your dd can't go on the trip the school must have her in. If they don't it would be unlawful exclusion and also likely disability discrimination again because it's not her fault she can't do the trip if they aren't making reasonable adjustments to accommodate her.

They don't seem to be paying for the trip out of the school's budget - they fundraised for it. Presumably if they didn't raise enough to cover overall costs the trip wouldn't happen, or they would look for a cheaper option. So they need to fundraise enough to enable them to comply with their statutory duties, including the Equality Act duties.

But fundraising isn’t an exact science! It’s PTA-funded, which isn’t easy during a cost of living crisis. And I’d imagine (as I said above) that they’ve chosen this place because it offers a discount and a minimum number of stays. So the alternative could well be not going on any residential.

But it doesn't mean that it's OK for the school to go for minimal inclusion, which is what sitting on the side would amount to. They have to make more effort to include the pupil properly given that she's capable of doing so with minimal adjustments; if they can't, they shouldn't be running the trip.

For these activities I assume it will be the activity centre staff who will be running the activities not school staff as will need to be qualified in providing these activitiesfor insurance and H&S requirements. So the centre will possibly need to provide extra staff and possibly specialised equipment to reduce stress on the girl's joints etc. They will obviously need to know this in advance (which due to school saying OP's daughter can just sit out) school might not be advising or saying that one pupil will be sitting out. Hopefully, now OP has contacted the venue they will be able to say what adjustments can be made, and hopefully, more reasonable than those suggested by the school.

Also, as I said, as far as I’m aware PTA funding can’t be used for staff costs. Which is definitely not a road you’d want to go down anyway.

No, I don’t work there. I’m trying to explain why this isn’t a simple ‘the school can’t be bothered, you should bring up the equalities act!’ type of fight. They know. They will be fully aware how shit it is for a disabled or SEN kid to be educated in mainstream education.

Just to be clear: I’m not defending anyone. I’m explaining why winding the OP up about making a fuss and speaking to governors won’t change anything. The best thing you can do is lobby for changes in education. And write to your MP, always.

Well I 100% agree with your last point
But your previous point cements mine - attitudinal change will never happen unless this stuff gets called out Every Single Time and schools start to make inclusive decisions. If those decisions mean stuff can't happen perhaps parents will start to vote and lobby accordingly. With 6 weeks too there is perhaps a chance of something being worked out with the aid of more senior staff.

@Pumperthepumper uou need to better acquaint yourself with Equality 2010 and Equality and Public Sector Equality Duty. No money is no defence. If they can’t afford for ALL pupils to be able to participate then they MUST ensure that none do, or that the participation is equitable.

And Educational Welfare will be ok with that will they?

There is no reason she can't go into another class even if not her year group.

And maybe if the OP makes a stand her DD won't be the only one not going

No, they don’t have to do any of that if ‘effort’ is actually something like staffing or training that they can’t afford. Yes, they could cancel the trip. But I’d imagine since they go every year it would be something all kids would know about.

No, that’s wrong. They don’t have to ensure participation is equitable on a residential school trip.

Nope that’s not true. Please, please stop. You don’t know what you’re on about