School residential, school have said they have to go

[Y4GoingAway]

School Year 4, but it’s a first school so the final year at the school.

Apparently it’s compulsory and there is no provision in school for those who don’t go as the class teachers plus several other staff go.

I don’t want DD to go. She has a genetic condition that affects her muscles and joints. She also has an EHCP due to SN (not ASD)

The trip is canoeing and rock climbing and zip lining and orienteering. Which all sound great but schools only adjustment for DDs condition is she can sit out if she wants to, which she won’t because she never does for Forest School or PE or anything else physical, school say they cannot force DD to sit out. They have PE, Forest School and the morning mile in one day at school and DDs generally screaming in pain by 2pm, I’ve asked for her to sit out of Forest School and the mile but been told that it’s up to DD to decide and she wants to be like her friends so will push herself until she can’t cope anymore – she’s missed school the next day because of the pain and school just shrug and say she needs to tell them when she wants to sit out, while in the next breath saying she seems to refuse to acknowledge her condition as she won’t talk about it!

This isn’t about DD being away overnight, she stays away from me with ExH EOWend for 1 night and he usually takes her away for 3-4 days in the summer holidays plus she’s just done a 3 day pack holiday with Brownies. Also it’s not a cost thing, the trip itself is free, we’re being asked to donate to transport there and back either by paying school for the bus or getting our DC there ourselves.
Brownies where brilliant, they let her choose one active activity per day and then put her in the group that wasn’t doing that activity after she’d done it, so she did crafts or similar, all the girls where given the same opportunity to sit out so no-one knew why DD only did 1 per day – and we’ve agreed that next time she goes she’ll do different activities so she’s tried different things which is a great compromise. Brownies also kept her topped up on her pain medication which school refuse to give her.

They’ve told me they have no provision for giving pain relief on the trip which is the same in school. They’ve also said if children sit out of an activity they will just have to watch everyone else do it, there’s no staffing for them to have a group at the centre they’re staying in doing something else – I even said DD would be happy to do worksheets or similar.

And before anyone says “But there’s more going with school” there’s the same number at Brownies and Brownies had a bigger age range as school only take the 90 year 4s, whereas Brownies had 60 Brownies (7-10 year olds), 30 guides (10-14 year olds), and a couple of Rainbows (7 year olds) who’re ready to move to Brownies soon.

School have said if she doesn’t go they will not be providing alternative work, she will be the only one in her entire year not going and she will be supervised by “whichever member off staff is free”. She does have 1-1 TA for parts of the day and one of her two 1-1s won’t be going and I’ve offered to get her tutor she has outside of school to provide work (tutor has already offered) and I’ve been told again the trip is compulsory. Apparently they've never had anyone not go ever.

So AIBU and just have to suck it up? The trip is after half term.

Schools and education authorities have had a duty to provide reasonable adjustments for disabled pupils since 2002 (originally under the Disability Discrimination Act 1995 (the DDA) and, from October 2010, under the Equality Act. The duty to make reasonable adjustments in education is 'anticipatory', meaning schools must consider in advance what they need to do to make sure all disabled pupils can access and participate in the education and other benefits, facilities and services they provide for their pupils.

From your post it would seem the school are not fulfilling their obligation under the Act, and like previous posters I think it warrants a complaint to the school governors. The school have a legal obligation to make reasonable adjustments for her condition so that she can participate safely and if you think it would be helpful, a full breakdown of what is required of schools under the Act is available on the YouGov website.

If the school are unable to ensure she will be pain free, then you have little choice but to keep her at home sadly.

To lighten the mood - I went to a parents' evening for my DD and the teacher said: "I had no idea she had such awful asthma." Cue puzzled moment from me (DD does not have asthma), then the teacher went on to say what a shame it was that this had stopped DD doing the abseiling on the residential trip. I swallowed my laughter - what DD had said to me was "They wanted me to jump off a cliff on a rope - as if if I would be that stupid!"

Have you contacted the provider direct (presume PGL or similar?) to see what they normally do when they have a participant who needs adjustments?

Those who are saying she should just stay home, this is a cop out. She will feel left out and excluded when they get back. It’s not just about the activities, it’s the fun and socialising too (although I agree year 4 is young for this).

If she wants to go, I would fight for her. Watching from the sidelines and not giving her medication is really poor.

And how do you suggest they do that without staff?

They are being unhelpful and obstructive however by not making reasonable accommodations so she can go. It should be possible to give medication and to be flexible about the activities she undertakes. They should be meeting with family to discuss how she can take part. And I’ve spent 20 years working in schools and taken many residentials.

How? It would need a staff member to be trained in giving that medication, and how do you suggest she takes part if they don’t have the staff ratio?

There will probably be lots of talk after and photos from trip used in leavers book/assembly so it will be awful for her for rest of time at school if she doesn’t go.
How can sit and watch the able bodied children having fun be a suggestion in 2023?!

Take them out for an unauthorised holiday. It can not be compulsory out of school time 9-3 or whatever.

Based on what you’ve said here, I think you need to make a complaint directly to the chair of the governors based on the fact that they are failing in their statutory (I.e. legally required) duty to support a child with medical condition in school as per this document assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/803956/supporting-pupils-at-school-with-medical-conditions.pdf As paragraph 6 points out, each child is an individual and they must make appropriate provisions based on individual need - so in this case she needs alterations to the maximum level of activity in a day and she must be able to access pain relief in school (you may need her doctor to specifically prescribe/support this - then they cannot refuse. Nor can they make you come to school to administer it.)

Are the needs related to her genetic condition included in her EHCP? If not, they should be - medical conditions affect ability to learn, but purely medical/physical needs often remain unaddressed in the EHCP. In addition to her EHCP she should also have an IHP (individual healthcare plan) which is a simpler document outlining the day to day support she needs so it is clear for all staff. This should detail the need for painkillers and the need to set a maximum limit on her physical activity for the day. These are reasonable adjustments required in order for your child to access education fully and the school has a duty to provide them.

As the trip is an expected part of the curriculum, adjustments must also be made for her to be able to access the trip. Withdrawing her may well be a reasonable adjustment, but only if that is truly what she and you want - she cannot be excluded, and failing to provide necessary adaptations amounts to excluding her from the trip. Honestly, it sounds like this school has a lot of work to do on its policies around supporting children with medical needs.

I apppreciate that you are leaving the school soon, but absolutely make sure that you get these needs written down and accepted by her middle school.

Firstly, I am not convinced any school can say a trip is compulsory. On what grounds are they claiming it's compulsory.

Secondly, if they cannot make adequate provision for managing your child's medical needs, and you cannot be there to support, then of course you shouldn't send her.

Thirdly, if you just don't turn up at school that morning what can they actually do about it. They can hardly knock your door down and drag your child kicking and screaming onto a bus...

The lack of provision for my SEN child is why I home educate. It's a national disgrace.

Because as usual people expect disabled children (and adults) to learn to accommodate the world, not the other way round.

It’s so frustrating. The adjustments she needs seem entirely reasonable.
I’d be tempted to take her for a day (maybe the last day) but keep her off school and do some fun things with her the rest of the time.

Given that she has an EHCP it is shockingly bad that school have not thought about or organised the support your dd needs for this trip. Going forward I would make sure at the next annual review that the EHCP is amended with appropriate wording to make sure that this does not happen again in her next school (before my ds's had an EHCP my ds's got round the difficulties of a school residential by inviting dh to accompany them)

It’s because education services have been cut to the absolute bone, to the detriment of SEN kids more than any other.

This is appallingly bad and sounds like disability discrimination to me. My DD missed her residential trip last year due to a broken arm, but her school was brilliant about having a teacher remain behind at school to carry out fun activities with the kids who couldn't go (there was a small handful), and also the outdoor education centre where the residential was held claimed they had a variety of toned-down activities that she could have carried out in lieu of anything she wasn't able to do (we decided not to send her on the trip so we didn't test that out in practice, however). Your school should be giving you similar options.

I'm sorry you're in this position, I hope you find a solution.

What does the ehcp say anout pain medication and management for physical activities?
Does it say something like full assessment needed etc?
What do the OT And Physio reports say ?
What is the medical plan for in school time?

sit and watch the activity is not a reasonable adjustment ,

As you’ve said that your DD wants to go, I would be doing everything in my power to facilitate that. I’d start with the head teacher, and point out that they are breaking the law, due to disability discrimination. They must, legally, make accommodation for her, and if they don’t then you will be escalating the problem.
I do know of parents with Type 1 Diabetic children, who rather than stay at home and worry about their child at a residential trip, offer to go themselves, as a volunteer, primarily to support their own child. It’s very far from ideal, but is it something you could consider.
I’d be writing to the school governors and also my local MP and then to a lawyer and the local papers.
They obviously can’t force her to go, but they can’t expect you to send her without adequate assurances of her well-being either.

My yr6 is going on a similar trip but only 2 nights and it costs 350.

How on earth can the pta pay for this it'll be more than 500 quid per kid unless they go somewhere with inexperienced gap Yr kids doing instruction instead of fully qualified professionals.

You must either live in a very rich area or a very deprived area that gets special funding!

Have you contacted centre directly? My dc has a physical disability and has been on 10 plus activity holidays inc with Pgl and always been accommodated. It sounds like school not centre are issue and would be helpful when you spoke to school if you knew centre were on board.

"They can't summon up staff" yes, quite, but it is apparently acceptable for the disabled children to have to put up or shut up (or miss out) as a result of those staffing problems, which is the problem. It's not ok for everything to carry on as normal for the abled yet let the disabled be the first "casualties" of reduced staffing. The whole point of equality for the disabled is that we aren't seen as optional to include.

If she wants to go on the trip and pain relief is the main reason she can't could you speak to the GP about amending the medicine label so that she has the medication regularly for the 5 days when she's away? That way she would wouldn't feel so sore after activities and the school would be able to give it as it's not an 'as required' medication.

It's obviously not ideal for her to be on pain killers rather than the whole situation being properly managed but it could be a short term solution.

Ultimately though the school are failing to meet her needs and making no reasonable adjustment which is shit.

Of course it's not compulsory to go on the trip, but I do think YABU to expect her to be able to still attend school if she doesn't!!

Speaking as a former teacher, it is now up to you to make whatever arrangements are necessary to take time off to look after her at home if she doesn't want to go on the trip.

I run an education setting for young people with complex needs, most of them wouldn't be able to manage a residential so the school is bringing highly unreasonable. They should have considered the activities to suit the group of children attending to be sure there is something for everyone. Failing that they cannot make it compulsory and they cannot expect her to go and just sit on the sidelines watching her friends have fun. I'd be putting a letter into the school and board highlighting that this is not sufficient accommodation for a child with additional needs. There are many other reasons why a child might not be able to go eg being in Foster care, anxiety, caring responsibilities. The school seems to be negligent in pastoral care.