School residential, school have said they have to go

[Y4GoingAway]

School Year 4, but it’s a first school so the final year at the school.

Apparently it’s compulsory and there is no provision in school for those who don’t go as the class teachers plus several other staff go.

I don’t want DD to go. She has a genetic condition that affects her muscles and joints. She also has an EHCP due to SN (not ASD)

The trip is canoeing and rock climbing and zip lining and orienteering. Which all sound great but schools only adjustment for DDs condition is she can sit out if she wants to, which she won’t because she never does for Forest School or PE or anything else physical, school say they cannot force DD to sit out. They have PE, Forest School and the morning mile in one day at school and DDs generally screaming in pain by 2pm, I’ve asked for her to sit out of Forest School and the mile but been told that it’s up to DD to decide and she wants to be like her friends so will push herself until she can’t cope anymore – she’s missed school the next day because of the pain and school just shrug and say she needs to tell them when she wants to sit out, while in the next breath saying she seems to refuse to acknowledge her condition as she won’t talk about it!

This isn’t about DD being away overnight, she stays away from me with ExH EOWend for 1 night and he usually takes her away for 3-4 days in the summer holidays plus she’s just done a 3 day pack holiday with Brownies. Also it’s not a cost thing, the trip itself is free, we’re being asked to donate to transport there and back either by paying school for the bus or getting our DC there ourselves.
Brownies where brilliant, they let her choose one active activity per day and then put her in the group that wasn’t doing that activity after she’d done it, so she did crafts or similar, all the girls where given the same opportunity to sit out so no-one knew why DD only did 1 per day – and we’ve agreed that next time she goes she’ll do different activities so she’s tried different things which is a great compromise. Brownies also kept her topped up on her pain medication which school refuse to give her.

They’ve told me they have no provision for giving pain relief on the trip which is the same in school. They’ve also said if children sit out of an activity they will just have to watch everyone else do it, there’s no staffing for them to have a group at the centre they’re staying in doing something else – I even said DD would be happy to do worksheets or similar.

And before anyone says “But there’s more going with school” there’s the same number at Brownies and Brownies had a bigger age range as school only take the 90 year 4s, whereas Brownies had 60 Brownies (7-10 year olds), 30 guides (10-14 year olds), and a couple of Rainbows (7 year olds) who’re ready to move to Brownies soon.

School have said if she doesn’t go they will not be providing alternative work, she will be the only one in her entire year not going and she will be supervised by “whichever member off staff is free”. She does have 1-1 TA for parts of the day and one of her two 1-1s won’t be going and I’ve offered to get her tutor she has outside of school to provide work (tutor has already offered) and I’ve been told again the trip is compulsory. Apparently they've never had anyone not go ever.

So AIBU and just have to suck it up? The trip is after half term.

I suspect some of this is your anxiety and not your daughters. Does your daughter want to go and do all the activities? I'd start there. It doesn't sound like it is the kind of trip where there will be non-sport activities as an alternative. I do agree they need to make relevant accommodations for a child with health/ learning issues just as they should do on school premises but quite how you do this for this kind of active trip is beyond me.

It's disability discrimination as they are failing to make reasonable adjustments for her disability. I would be writing in a very strongly worded complaint pointing out each area of the law they are breaking and what you expect them to do. DC1 has additional support needs and is supported in school. The school selecting a trip that a child with a physical disability cannot make is discrimination to begin with unless reasonable adjustments are made to ensure adequate provisions are in place to include the child.

I would refuse to send a child of a trip for a week if they refuse to give her necessary medication

I also wonder if the issue is that they don't 'see' your daughters conditon and that's where the refusal to deal with it comes from. Are they also refusing to administer inhalers for a week, do type 1 diabetics not get insulin?

I’d be concerned on discriminatory grounds as it’s excluding her from a week’s learning. I can’t see how watching from the sidelines will allow her to meet any of the learning objectives. It’s also potentially socially isolating and damaging to her confidence. But the main concern is that they don’t appear able or willing to support her in managing her condition, or engage with the family to do so. They don’t seem able to keep her safe and well.

DD wants to go, but doesn't want to be in pain. I want to make that happen.

Pain relief is prescribed but school won't give it because the prescription says "As required" they won't give antibiotics or similar either unless they're to be given 5 times a day (which never happens) as they say you can give 4 times or less around the school day - even if that means waking them in the night for it.

Brownies did not have this issue, she had a leader assigned to her that would "check in" with her regularly, and even though they gave medication when I wouldn't of I'd rather that than potentially leave her in pain!

I do have a job and I'm a single parent but will look at booking it off.

Up until this year school have been great but her teachers did bend the rules slightly by telling her to sit down/miss certain exercises during PE/Mile and they didn't do Forest School until this year due to no staff.

I’d imagine it’s due to lack of staff, which is a funding issue. It’s shit though.

If I was you I would get the GP to write a note excusing her from the trip or alternatively to write a note yourself, very finely but professionally outlining her exact medical condition and why the trip is unsuitable for her.

does she have Ehlers-Danlos syndrome? It is in my family too and is related to ADHD.

Can you make a list of reasonable adjustments that you think would make the trip accessible for your daughter?

Talk about it and think about it with her then take it to the school and make sure they can provide the resource to implement it

It isn't good enough to say we can't provide your child with pain relief for a whole week. The provider will probably be more clued up than the school so talking to them too.

I would get in touch with SENDIASS or the LA tbh. Try the Not Fine In School FB group - there will be people who have challenged this kind of ableist bullshit.

to the pp who said "its your anxiety not your daughters" you can do one, you've clearly no idea about how to manage this child's condition, if she is screaming in pain and missing school because she's doing the daily mile etc and no accommodations given, clearly this isn't about the parents' "anxiety".

School is being unsympathetic and idiotic. Keep her at home if they refuse to educate her for a week and plan a week of nice activities.

so sorry they are being like this, most primary schools are lovely even if they can’t help. Yours just sounds horrible. At least she’s leaving soon !

They can’t magic up staff though.

They have PE, Forest School and the morning mile in one day at school

Whatever type of school is she at?

Presumably this won't continue when she moves school?

In my DCs' school there is usually one or two who don't want to go. So far it's been due to emotional issues (ASD or similiar). They encourage all DC to consider it and some who were initially reluctant have gone (the one in my DC1's year didn't have a brilliant time but it also wasn't awful and he felt proud of himself for doing it). There is one DC with a physical disability (it mainly affects balance - he could do all the acitivies but would be much slower at some and felt self conscious as a result) and they offered him alternatives (he was able to switch groups and do a different activity twice to avoid the ones he didn't want to do).

The DC that have stayed back have always been redistributed around the school. They were all year 6 students. I know one spent quite alot of the week as a PE teacher's helper as he loves sport. Another spent some of the time as a nursery helper as I think she wants to work with children. I think they all spent some time just in the classroom with the year below - presumably doing separate work but I'm not sure. Your school should be able to offer similiar.

This is disability discrimination and if the school aren't willing to make reasonable adjustments and provision to allow your daughter to participate safely then I'd be very swiftly following the complaints procedure until a resolution is reached.

It sounds as though DD would love to take part but that she requires adult input to do so safely. If she is not old enough or otherwise able to make sound decisions regarding the extent to which she can participate (which is understandable - I don't know many children who have the self control to stop doing something extremely exciting and fun with all their friends because it will cause pain later) then she needs an adult to take charge and take the decision out of her hands. Presumably there's no reason to suspect that she would not follow an instruction from an adult? Likewise the painkillers. These are part of her ongoing treatment which allows her to participate in daily life with her peers.

I'd completely ignore the bit about it being compulsory. What nonsense. If they can't look after your DD safely then clearly she can't go. The school are being very lazy.

YANBU and they can't make the trip compulsory. Our DC has a number of health issues. Tbh school just let him stay home when there is a trip that he can't manage. Although they also give the option of sitting in with a younger class.

Oh god, there’s always so much misinformation on these threads. The school isn’t being lazy - they can’t summon staff, and they won’t have funding to pay for any. You can complain all you like but you’ll get nowhere - this is what education in Britain looks like now.

This makes me so sad. Different situation but we had similar issue last year, my sons autistic and the school were reluctant to let him stay at school - as no one would be there for him but no support on the trip. He did not want to go (year 6 and it was 4 nights away!)

at one point they wanted me to come (unrealistic), or to leave him there in the day and pick him up to sleep at home and take him back which could have worked if it wasn't a 90 minute drive away. I would have spent half the day on the road which was unrealistic.

the worst thing was they took his designated 1:1 on the trip (his EHCP outlined he needed 1:1 full time) but they needed to keep the ratios on the trip up. in the end I was told he could stay in year 5 (as above) but with no Ta support at all.

turns out he was poorly that week anyway but the school made it out I was being the difficult one.

the trip is not compulsory. The reason they want them all to go is because there will be no one around to teach them.

I bet the trip costs a fair bit too?

if you can, perhaps keep her off but I know it's not that easy with childcare. They will have to have her in school if needed!

@Puppers Given that Brownies said she had no issues with her when they told her to not do something due to potential pain I'd say there's no reason for school to suspect she'd be different with them.

As I've said I want her to go, her friends are all going to a different middle school to her (due to her physical issues she needs to go to a school with classrooms on a ground floor which her middle school have and have said they can move her classes in Years 7 and 8 to there if necessary) so I want her to have the opportunity to spend time with them.

Keep her at home. Get a sick note from the GP if you have to.

@Usernumber463626363 The trip is completely free, they raise money through the PTA to go. We only have to pay for transport or get our DC there and back ourselves. It's 2 hours away.

Ring Ipsea for advice. If they are unwilling to let her stay at school and educate at school as a reasonable adjustment under the equality act then their actions may be unlawful. But I'm not a lawyer, so please ring Ipsea for specialist advice.

Would it be possible to get the GP to prescribe her pain relief to be given specifically 3/4 times as day for the period she is away, just to ensure she's topped up and that the school will then have the 'authority' to administer it? Or would it be a problem for her to have it so regularly - it really depends on the type of medication, but I'm sure you will know if this would be ok OP?

I agree with PPs about working out a timetable of activities she will participate in, in advance, and then she will know that there will be some she will be sitting out of, rather than having to make that decision herself, in front of her friends.

My youngest would have hated being away for 4 nights at that age, so I think it's fab that your DD is so keen to go, and if you can get the school to make the adjustments she will need (which of course, they should be doing anyway), then she should go. Good luck!

I’d definitely want a meeting with school. It sounds like dd can go and enjoy trip with reasonable adjustments. If unpaid volunteers can do it (Brownies) then paid staff should be able to accommodate her needs especially as she has echp and 1-1.

My dc has a physical disability. Before school residential I spoke to school and the centre and it was fine no issues.

What does their website have about equality and accessibility policies? If not on the website- ask for them in writing.

For all it's faults, GG is great for this kind of thing.

School can't make the trip mandatory. What are they going to do if DD doesn't turn up on the first day? Take you to court?

Keeping her off isn’t a solution if dc wants to go (how awful for whole yr to go and not you just because you have a disability) and no help for working mum who already has the school hols to cover.