School residential, school have said they have to go

[Y4GoingAway]

School Year 4, but it’s a first school so the final year at the school.

Apparently it’s compulsory and there is no provision in school for those who don’t go as the class teachers plus several other staff go.

I don’t want DD to go. She has a genetic condition that affects her muscles and joints. She also has an EHCP due to SN (not ASD)

The trip is canoeing and rock climbing and zip lining and orienteering. Which all sound great but schools only adjustment for DDs condition is she can sit out if she wants to, which she won’t because she never does for Forest School or PE or anything else physical, school say they cannot force DD to sit out. They have PE, Forest School and the morning mile in one day at school and DDs generally screaming in pain by 2pm, I’ve asked for her to sit out of Forest School and the mile but been told that it’s up to DD to decide and she wants to be like her friends so will push herself until she can’t cope anymore – she’s missed school the next day because of the pain and school just shrug and say she needs to tell them when she wants to sit out, while in the next breath saying she seems to refuse to acknowledge her condition as she won’t talk about it!

This isn’t about DD being away overnight, she stays away from me with ExH EOWend for 1 night and he usually takes her away for 3-4 days in the summer holidays plus she’s just done a 3 day pack holiday with Brownies. Also it’s not a cost thing, the trip itself is free, we’re being asked to donate to transport there and back either by paying school for the bus or getting our DC there ourselves.
Brownies where brilliant, they let her choose one active activity per day and then put her in the group that wasn’t doing that activity after she’d done it, so she did crafts or similar, all the girls where given the same opportunity to sit out so no-one knew why DD only did 1 per day – and we’ve agreed that next time she goes she’ll do different activities so she’s tried different things which is a great compromise. Brownies also kept her topped up on her pain medication which school refuse to give her.

They’ve told me they have no provision for giving pain relief on the trip which is the same in school. They’ve also said if children sit out of an activity they will just have to watch everyone else do it, there’s no staffing for them to have a group at the centre they’re staying in doing something else – I even said DD would be happy to do worksheets or similar.

And before anyone says “But there’s more going with school” there’s the same number at Brownies and Brownies had a bigger age range as school only take the 90 year 4s, whereas Brownies had 60 Brownies (7-10 year olds), 30 guides (10-14 year olds), and a couple of Rainbows (7 year olds) who’re ready to move to Brownies soon.

School have said if she doesn’t go they will not be providing alternative work, she will be the only one in her entire year not going and she will be supervised by “whichever member off staff is free”. She does have 1-1 TA for parts of the day and one of her two 1-1s won’t be going and I’ve offered to get her tutor she has outside of school to provide work (tutor has already offered) and I’ve been told again the trip is compulsory. Apparently they've never had anyone not go ever.

So AIBU and just have to suck it up? The trip is after half term.

Yes they do. Go and read up about it. They simply do.

No they don’t. Although I’m happy to read up on anything you care to send.

OP isn't asking for 1:1 care. They are funded for 10 hours a week 1:1 - it would make sense to use that for the child's normal 1:1 support to give the relatively small amount of support that she needs, including requiring them to take the necessary training to be able to administer painkillers. Other adjustments, e.g. providing for some less physical activities, are likely to be cost-free.

If they can't accommodate that much, then they haven't fundraised enough for the trip and shouldn't be running it.

There have been plenty of examples of inclusive trips delivered by schools on this thread.

Depending on how much the course for the medication costs I'd be happy to cover those costs myself, if it means DD can go and not be in pain

They can’t force anyone to administer medicine though. Less physical activities, if it meant a smaller group (or just the OP’s kid) going off would change staff ratios.

As a PP said, maybe they should stop running any residential trips, if they can’t make them inclusive. But I promise, residential trips are the tip of the iceberg in inclusive education.

How do you know? The information OP gives about their current practice strongly suggests that this is a school which is failing to comply with both it's SEN and disability discrimination duties on a daily basis. It looks as if rather a large element is attributable to the fact that for some reason they either don't know their duties or think they are exempt.

This IS disability discrimination. They need to make reasonable adjustments.

It's also a safeguarding / safety risk. They're essentially saying if she goes, they're going to allow her, a child, to make the decision about what her body can cope with rather than following medical advice. They are refusing to administer prescribed medication that might make it more possible for her to participate.

What if she pushes herself to do things when her body is in pain, risking injury.? What if this happens when she's halfway up a cliff? Children are not good judges of what they can cope with, especially when peer pressure is involved.

OP, can you offer to go on the trip as a parent helper/ volunteer? That would mean you're there to monitor. You'd have to pay for yourself probably but it would mean both that your DD could join in and that she'd be safe. I know that if you volunteer in school you don't need a DBS as long as there is always a member of staff with you; they could ensure the only child you're alone with is your DD.

This is appalling! And I say this as a teacher of 15 years. There should be provision for kids who are not going on the trip and also provision to administer medication whilst on the trip. I'm genuinely shocked.

Because I work in a school. And I doubt very much it’s because they just can’t be arsed with their duties. It’s much more likely that they can’t meet the needs of kids like the OP’s.

They can't force anyone to administer medicine; but if they don't have even one member of staff with the relevant training how do they cover first aid?

Yes, I’m sure it’s possible to run an inclusive trip.

In Year 4, that is not necessarily such a terrible thing. Especially given that this school doesn't seem to know how to run a residential trip properly.

The medication thing is just weird, what if a child is injured whilst on the trip and needs pain relief, or antiseptic cream and a bandage? Are they seriously doing an outdoor activity residential with zero members of staff who can administer medication under any circumstances?

No, but there will also be a lot of kids for whom a school residential is the only holiday they’ll have.

How do you account for the fact that other schools, with the same funding constraints, manage not to be as shit as this one?

All schools will have different funding though. They could have Pupil Equity Funding that they put towards extra PSAs. They could have a staff base with fewer responsibilities outside of school who are happy to go on residentials. But I’d imagine that more trips are like this one rather than fully inclusive.

I love a thread where teachers/school staff turn up and think they're qualified in law, educational psychology, physiotherapist, speech and language, occupational therapy just because they 'work in a school'. Who knew.

First Aid doesnt actually civer administering medicine. Its done on a voluntary basis, unless someine is recruited specifically to be say a 1:1 to a diabetic student.

Forest school = children sitting round on logs to make a fire, or make a hide with a tarpaulin, or collect and identify leaves. All very tame and not very active.
Daily ‘mile’ = most children walking round the playground whilst having a chat to their friends. Distance covered usually as far as they can walk in 10 minutes before they go back for Maths.

No, judicial review doesn't take a lot of time. As SOS SEN and other lawyers regularly point out, in well over 90% of cases if provision is properly specified in EHCPs and is not being supplied, all that is needed is a pre-action letter to bring local authorities to heel. No LA that is bang to rights is going to risk being taken to court and having to pay not only its own costs but those of the child's lawyers. They will also be aware that if they try to mess around, they can be brought to court very quickly with emergency legal aid in the child's name.

All that schools need to do is refer parents to charities like SOS SEN. If necessary, they might need to supply a letter saying they can't provide support specified in the EHCP because the local authority won't fund it, plus copies of any relevant correspondence with the LA - but even that probably won't be necessary for the purposes of a pre-action letter. So the amount of time a school will have to spend on this will be minimal.

As I say, schools just don't educate themselves on how easy it is to help parents enforce statutory legal duties, and they let them off the hook through sheer ignorance.

You can choose to keep your DD off school for the duration of the trip, but for heavens sake, don’t make her do school work or have a tutor!!!

In the case of a child like OP's, if they need more staff in order to meet her needs then they make a case for having that provision written into her EHCP.

As I say, schools just don't educate themselves on how easy it is to help parents enforce statutory legal duties, and they let them off the hook through sheer ignorance.

That’s not true. It’s time and money. We don’t have that. Write to your MP if you want to see a change.

@Pumperthepumper at the end of the day, though, none of your (very valid) arguments about funding, staffing, or that this residential trip might be the only holiday some children get trump the requirement of the school to meet its legal obligations under the 2010 Equality Act.

So they school either need to raise more money, or to change the nature of the trip, or to cancel the trip. That's it, those are the options open to them.

And you are wrong to say that complaining to the school or the governors will never lead to anything. It absolutely will if you start quoting the legislation at them. The HT at my DC's school started running proper risk assessments and ensuring the the necessary reasonable adjustments were made, clearly she had been instructed that she had to do this – she hated me for it but I could care less, schools need to realise they can't just ignore disability discrimination legislation.