AIBU to think Rishi Sunak is sadistic and unreasonable to want all pupils to study maths up to 18?

[Boysgrownbutstillathome]

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-64158179

Nothing wrong in raising standards but the UK has very few math teachers.
So basically he is talking about something that he cannot deliver.

Its just another "we will build 40 new hospitals" moment.

One of our local comp schools is held up with 300 bits of wood, its replacement was cancelled in 2011 and has never been rescheduled.

@hobbi

Oh I absolutely agree with you there.

The point was that sitting pupils in something called a maths class until they are 18, when they have already struggled with maths all throughout their school days is going to make them feel resentful and they will not be engaged with it.

If the teaching can be done in a way that they can see is relevant to their everyday life or future careers then rather than just tick a box to say they sat in a maths class it will actually be beneficial to society.

You're right though. Expecting that from the tories is too much.

He didn't think it through did he
Maybe it's too warm in his heated swimming pool today and he's feeling a bit foggy?

YABU to be distracted by a farcical red herring thrown to the papers by Number 10 in order to distract everyone from the NHS crisis.

There is no way the Tories will win the next election so this is never going to happen. It's just Rishi Sunak saying "look over here! Look over here!" so people stop paying attention to the near-complete breakdown of our health service.

I disagree. We are way behind India and China in terms of educational outcome at 21/22 because we don’t get it right in terms of discipline from primary onwards. In terms of graduates, the Indian kids are blowing everyone else out of the water. They are hard working, smart and bring a new perspective to the work place. I enjoy working with them. The European and American kids are so far behind it’s comical. They can’t even get to work on time.

Maths is 90% discipline because you apply logic to get to the answer. People who struggle with maths have mainly had a teacher who isn’t able to explain logic to someone who has a creative mind. Maths in the primary years is 100% rote learning. We don’t do this well. China and India do this well.

I have my children in the US and my elder two are in math tutoring 3x a week so they aren’t falling behind in the US system. 45% of children in US public schools have an IEP which means they can’t keep up and when you have an IEP it means common core doesn’t apply. My elder two were on an IEP and I learned the hard way. Thank goodness for covid because it gave me the view I needed to know what was going on. To be clear, it’s not the teachers fault, they were doing their job, but the system is absolutely not functioning. I can see the same is happening in the UK.

I'd highly recommend listening to this episode of The Infinite Monkey Cage which discusses the teaching of Maths.

www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m0019ytj

Summary:
How to Teach Maths - The Infinite Monkey Cage Series 24
Brian Cox and Robin Ince are joined by comedian Sara Pascoe and the very numerate Prof Hannah Fry, maths comedian Matt Parker and statistician Prof David Spiegelhalter for a unique maths class. Are some of us just innately bad at maths or can everyone get to grips with algebra and calculus? What do our panel wish they'd been taught at school, and what is the key to a life-long love of numbers? Get your calculators ready!

When I first heard this I immediately thought "I bet he taking a swipe at all the striking workers for not understanding money in the same way as he does" :).

But some of that is pointless as shown on some the financial well-being information because if they’re not going to buy a house for a few years they’d forget it all.

parents need to also take more responsibility for their kids.

@somewhereovertherain My parents who rented all their lives did not understand mortgages.

Tbf mortgages are very easy as there’s many advisors happy to help you for a small fee

Some of this stuff replaces more useful learning

Well many leave at 16 without a GCSE above a grade 1 so I would say school is not the place to do it. If they can't teach them in 11 years why will an extra 2 make a difference.
Give the funding to smaller providers who can offer smaller classes, adapt to learning styles etc!

parents need to also take more responsibility for their kids.

There also comes a point where people have to take responsibility for themselves surely?

I got my first mortgage at 21, it really wasn't that difficult. I went to the bank, their advisor went through it, I read up stuff online. I knew to get an AIP etc- my ex wasn't aware of this when we bought our first house together and he was a lot older.

Parents aren't responsible for everything either, nor is the education system or government.

I got an A in maths O level in 1985 and know more than enough to get through everyday life. I gave it up because I felt I'd reached the limit of my abilities in maths and wanted to study languages and humanities. I have a successful career in humanities and speak a second language fluently (and use it every day) so I would say that was a good choice of subjects for me.

We did have the largely pointless General Studies inflicted on us in those days - I'd have had no objection to replacing it with appropriate-level maths instead. But what about English, Rishi, is that not important too?

It's possibly true that the U.K. system allows specialisation too early (compared to European countries as well as the US/Asia), but the whole system would have to be overhauled to bring it in line, otherwise there would be fewer opportunities to study other useful subjects.

Other articles make it clear that students won’t be studying algebra until 18 but learn about finding the best mortgage and other things that will better prepare them for life.

This is absolutely needed and reasonable.

I think it's safe to say if you took your GCSEs two years early, your experience was scarcely typical 😉

You don't need advanced level maths teachers for it, either. Anyone with a GCSE in maths (all teachers) should be able to teach budgeting, basic economics, credit, tax etc.

It's not for maths specialists, it's for the rest of us who 'aren't maths people' it still need to manage and understand our own affairs, do work based maths etc.

Stuff like keeping track of expenses and mileage on a project, using a spreadsheet to track ticket sales, presenting accounts after a project. Basic level maths, more advanced level administration maybe. Really useful.

Plus there aren't enough qualified maths teachers available right NOW, so I'm very interested in his plan to find a shedload MORE.

A lot of this would happen in FE, where teachers aren't always fully qualified and very rarely paid as such. Plus, this is just moving the shortage around.

most of them won't be getting a mortgage till they're 30+ so I don't see the point

They'll be off to university and need to do things like budget properly though.

Plus, it's never a bad thing to learn how interest rates work even if you won't get a mortgage for a while.

www.gov.uk/government/speeches/pm-speech-on-making-2023-the-first-year-of-a-new-and-better-future-4-january-2023

And one of the biggest changes in mindset we need in education today is to reimagine our approach to numeracy.

As Chancellor, I introduced Multiply, a new programme to give hundreds of thousands of adults the opportunity to get the basic numerical skills they need.

But we’re one of the few countries not to require our children to study some form of maths up to the age of 18.

Right now, just half of all 16–19-year-olds study any maths at all.

Yet in a world where data is everywhere and statistics underpin every job, letting our children out into that world without those skills, is letting our children down.

So we need to go further.

I am now making numeracy a central objective of the education system.

That doesn’t have to mean compulsory A level in maths for everyone.

But we will work with the sector to move towards all children studying some form of maths to 18.

Just imagine what greater numeracy will unlock for people:

The skills to feel confident with your finances, to find the best mortgage deal or savings rate;

The ability to do your job better and get paid more;

And greater self-confidence to navigate a changing world.

...

which suggests that whatever level of maths attainment reached at 16, you're going to have to carry on with something till 18. So, whatever subject(s) you enjoy and and are good at, you've got to do some extra maths too.

Genius.

@barneshome

The current governor of the Bank of England has a history degree and PhD.

🙂

I think there is a scope for something like the transition year they have in Ireland ( after gcse before a ‘level).

They could also cover critical thinking skills in media - newspapers, internet literacy etc some key research points on recognising legitimate sites/information/agenda and bias.

in maths - def compound interest, basic of investing, understanding of how modern economies work and the political system.

Where these topics are taught in their respective domains can often lose some students so they need to be simplified and show references to where you can develop your knowledge and understanding so it doesn’t overwhelm students.

I would also include some interpersonal stuff like self organisation, finding a sporting activity you enjoy and can use to build fitness.

Everyone will be doing maths to A-Level standard then?

Or is this the usual stretching out of the curriculum longer and longer while teaching slower and slower - and incorporating more and more brainwashing

???