AIBU to think Rishi Sunak is sadistic and unreasonable to want all pupils to study maths up to 18?

[Boysgrownbutstillathome]

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-64158179

I think subject to available funding and staffing (pause for slightly hysterical laughter) that there are areas where wider maths-adjacent teaching would be useful. The statistical side of scientific methodology could be included (so we would have fewer people sawllowing conspiracy bollocks whole), understand of of risk increases (as in: a % increase of a very tiny risk is still very tiny, Daily Mail), compound interest and how investments work, that sort of thing. Basic societal, statistical and financial literacy.

This is nothing new. Gove made the same announcement years ago but it didn't happen because there weren't enough Maths teachers then, and there is an even greater shortage of Maths teachers now. It's just the same old empty, meaningless shite that's supposed to distract us from the fact that our health and social care system is crumbling, schools can't pay their heating bills let alone employ more teachers, the economy is fucked and they're not doing a thing about it.

I can only speak from my own experience, DS2 wouldn’t pass GCSE maths if he was studying into his 30’s, he just can’t retain the formulas, we tried everything inc private tutor made no difference at all. He is nearly 20 now and is very successful in his role, which is an area of business that interests him.

They totally need to teach the the economics of their student loan, too!!

I've one DS just qualified as chartered accountant who'll pay his back- and is paying it back in big chunks already because of the punitive interest/charges on it. And one DS who probably won't ever come near to paying it off. It will be a life long tax for him- and he didn't graduate either.

Thinking about this some more, this scheme is basically aimed at those who get a good GCSE pass but then don't want to study maths anymore, with the argument that they may regret narrowing their focus too soon. Forcing students who are taking all arts and humanities subjects to study core maths as well could make their school life more stressful and risk lowering their grades.
If they later regret not doing a maths degree, then a core maths qualification won't be enough to let them change direction. The government would be better focusing more funding on adult education so it is easier/cheaper/actually possible for adults to take maths and other A levels at any time of life. (I know there are access courses but they are quite limited).

Hmm plenty of people can’t do simple sums in their head - or work out a percentage discount, or calculate the area of a room they need to paint, or use simple statistics… this would be a start!

I’m all for the everyday useful bits of maths being taught… I’d be curious to know WHAT maths exactly.

@pointythings valid points about the kind of maths that could be included. Still needs teachers and other resources which aren't there.

I'm appalled.

If he had announced better provision and resources going to maths teaching at primary level, I would be excited..
This is where DC must get the basics down with special tutor's, to teach flexibility and in a Sen way. Intervention group's to drum those foundations in

It's pretty hopeless to get a bored ridged student at 17 who simply never got the basics in to keep bashing their head at this. There is no time to go back over the basics either but an assumption that they know them.
They don't that's why they keep struggling and failing.

Long COVID I've painted so many rooms without that working out?
I can judge it.

I agree with this. My son would much rather study Japanese than maths and it would be of much more use to him.
If he could do a night course along with his level 3 subject that would be perfect.

I loathed maths at school but that was largely because I wasn't naturally good at it and didn't see how half the things we learned at GCSE applied to the real world. I've barely used anything I've learned beyond percentages, fractions and basic arithmetic since then. However I would love to better understand statistics and economic principles and could see how they would be incredibly useful in the real working world. So perhaps the current curriculum needs to change to the areas that people who are not going to be mathematicians need to flourish in their careers or real world.

@runningpram .
You can learn that it's a different type of understanding and areas of maths. I was totally left behind by no teaching and then teaching too late. I understand some principles and taught myself to invest.
. investing is the key and the difference between making people richer or keep them poor

Any calculations can be made putting stuff into Google anyway and I can read and understand charts.

I think it should be Maths and English! It is very clear young adults don't have much beyond a very basic grasp of maths and English.

I don't disagree that maths teaching needs to be improved in this country but I'd prefer to see more focus on improving the current provision first, not just adding more years. It strikes me that the issue we have with poor numeracy generally starts early on. The people I know who say they struggle with maths generally can't manage arithmetic and didn't grasp the basic concepts at primary school, so it's hardly surprising that they then can't do more complex things when they get to secondary school. It must be like trying to read Shakespeare when you don't know all the letters in the alphabet. People who are fine with numbers generally but start to find it a bit tricky once they get to calculus aren't really the issue are they? Though almost everyone would probably go further or make easier/faster progress if they had a better foundation anyway.
If we are to produce a more numerate nation then we need to address the root causes of the problem. Sticking an extra 2 years on at the end, seems like closing the stable door when the horses have not so much bolted but are alreasy grazing in a field several miles away!
Given the shortage of maths teachers currently, I can't see this plan helping those who find maths difficult and it could be detrimental to those who do want to study A level. Maths is one of the most popular A levels at my DS's school and frankly I think there are more pupils in his class than is ideal already. If the same number of teachers then had teach everyone else in the 6th form as well, it would surely impact on class sizes and/or time available for the existing A level and core maths students which seems counterproductive to me.

It’s a great idea!!

I watched it on the news, and was shocked. Since when was maths till 18 a new policy. I disagree with this. You should be able to finish maths at GCSE if that's your choice.

@LlynTegid sadly you are quite correct.

@Cococomellon for crying out loud don't generalise about young adults. Many of them are very articulate and able to write well.

I think I remember reading something about him wanted to change A Levels to something like the IB diploma which would be more the more academic kids and then some other type of vocational/apprenticeship exams for those wanting to learn something more practical - I guess the math element of this would be more accounting/statistics type stuff to perhaps be studied alongside business…? Sound a bit like reverting back to grammar vs secondary modern, albeit at the later age of 16. I think there’s something in it and it would stop kids doing A levels and degrees that lead nowhere at I think the less academically inclined could get a head start in more practical skills and links to apprenticeships etc.

Both my DDs would have absolutely HATED this (as would I). Addressing the quality of maths teaching lower down in schools would be a better bet IMO so people (especially girls) are not put off my inept horrible teachers.

Terrible idea once again favouring the logistically minded over those whose talents lie in vocational subjects. If a child has not grasped maths in 11 years of studying, why would it suddenly click in years 12 and 13? Much better to run supplementary life skills/money management classes alongside their chosen subjects.

YANBU

I disagree with forcing kids to continue mathematics until 18

Continuing until aged 16 and getting a decent GCSE grade eg C or above, is a good target IMO

That's true. Just look at the way in which so many people were convinced to sleepwalk into lockdown...

Yes thus relates to media and messaging. So many wanting lockdown.

Totally agree with this

I would have HATED continuing mathematics until I was 18

During primary school I had a very mean teacher who told me I was dreadful at maths when I was around 7 yrs old

It stuck with me throughout school and always made me feel I wasn't "clever enough" to do mathematics

Definitely my worst subject at school, got a B at GCSE

Relatively speaking, got A/A* in the other subjects