Page 7 | AIBU to think Rishi Sunak is sadistic and unreasonable to want all pupils to study maths up to 18?

Goldenbear · 04/01/2023 13:01

bluelavender Equally, as I pointed out my son is going to study Maths A level and English Literature and Politics, he has a natural aptitude for Maths, I don’t, didn’t and my DD is the same, it visibly upsets her, why should my DD who is a talented Artist (not subjectively) at 11 have her self esteem shattered from inflicting maths until 18 on her. I thought one of Britain’s exports is the Arts why don’t we cherish that and maintain that position in the world.

pairofrollerskates · 04/01/2023 13:01

Firstly, there is a difference between "numeracy" and "maths". I am of the generation where the two were taught separately as "arithmetic" (which everybody had to do throughout their schooling in Scotland) and "maths" (which was algebra, geometry , trigonometry and calculus back in the day), and which could be dropped after S2. We didn't do economics then, although perhaps we should have. Anyway, my point is that while numeracy is absolutely essential, surely the rest, while desirable, can be put aside after a certain point. The current elevation of maths as a desirable subject above all else is almost a cult. There's more to life.

BritAbroad101 · 04/01/2023 13:01

WalkingThroughTreacle · 04/01/2023 12:52

It hardly feels like the greatest of priorities right now, does it? We've got a health service in absolute chaos. an economy teetering on the brink and it would be easier to list public sector workforces that aren't planning strikes than those that are. Then there's the minor matter of a conflict in Europe that could well escalate to WWIII. And he comes out with this jolly wheeze of an idea? Has he even stopped to think where exactly the extra maths teachers are going to come from?

Besides all that, whilst maths is a valuable skill, it's not for everyone and that's OK. Pupils should be encouraged to focus on things they are good at, not forced to embrace the PM's pet subject.

Math skills underpin the key areas of our current and future economy

So that pretty much covers off everything in your post

Whether maths is for everyone or not is irrelevant - it needs to be, if we want a successful economy (which then funds the NHS, our military, allows us to have a thriving public sector etc)

bluelavender · 04/01/2023 13:02

@AlecTrevelyan006 that's not actually quite what happened though.....

www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/jan/02/criticism-of-sunak-at-homeless-shelter-exposes-our-own-prejudices

MrsSkylerWhite · 04/01/2023 13:03

Good. It’s shameful that one in two adults have the mathematical skills expected of eleven year olds. In a nation with free at the point of delivery education for all.

MarshaBradyo · 04/01/2023 13:05

picklemewalnuts · 04/01/2023 12:33

@MarshaBradyo couldn't agree more! My lad did maths, economics, etc. just qualified as a chartered accountant. He wouldn't have needed extra maths.

However, he could visit and give them a chat about the delights of using a spreadsheet to organise every element of your life!

I was an oxford undergraduate. Very bright. Good education. I didn't recognise my first trip 'into the red' in my bank statement. It wasn't in red, and there were no negative numbers. Just a D after the figure instead of a C.

It's pretty basic, but my excellent education didn't cover it.

😀

Incidentally I’m glad the thread has moved on from ‘bot’ wails.

I was despairing that debating too should be taught to higher level given some responses. The ability to engage, understand economics oh and know how and why the media try to get your attention - and the voting public might be better prepared.

Sleepinggreyhounds · 04/01/2023 13:05

We don't have enough maths teachers as it is. And while I agree everyone should be numerate, what about those "average" people (like my DD) who got a perfectly decent GCSE in Maths and is more than able to function, but would struggle to go on to more advanced stuff (which is less applied anyway so would be of limited use). And why maths rather than English (which we are also performing poorly at)?

Soothsayer1 · 04/01/2023 13:06

ohfourfoxache · 04/01/2023 11:09

It’s just another fucking dead cat

Ignoring what the country actually needs and proposing some piss poor policy to divert attention from their utter fuck ups

I agree it's just a pathetic attempt to distract us from what's happening in the country, OR it's him mocking us by implying that the reason we have so many problems in this country is that we don't understand maths.
Everyone needs to be well educated on the subject of politics and economics and the ways in which politicians try to pull the wool over our eyes.

BritAbroad101 · 04/01/2023 13:07

Sleepinggreyhounds · 04/01/2023 13:05

We don't have enough maths teachers as it is. And while I agree everyone should be numerate, what about those "average" people (like my DD) who got a perfectly decent GCSE in Maths and is more than able to function, but would struggle to go on to more advanced stuff (which is less applied anyway so would be of limited use). And why maths rather than English (which we are also performing poorly at)?

Because maths underpins the future economy. All forms of tech is underpinned by maths for example.

Quite simply we can’t afford for people to ‘not be maths people’

FourTeaFallOut · 04/01/2023 13:09

It's just distraction bollocks to change the talking points away from current chaos - it's not like we have an abundance of additional maths teachers sat around looking bored, do we?

Soothsayer1 · 04/01/2023 13:10

I wonder if he plans to build a nightingale style maths academy?
(With no one available to actually staff it)

Goldenbear · 04/01/2023 13:10

BritAbroad101, we have an innovation problem with our current Economy how is a focus on maths and a disregard for the creative subjects (I.e by discouraging children from studying them until 18 and beyond) going to solve this? Innovation is what is needed for the current and future economy, do you think the industrial revolution would have happened if people didn’t have creative ideas?

BradfordGirl · 04/01/2023 13:11

BritAbroad101 · 04/01/2023 13:07

Because maths underpins the future economy. All forms of tech is underpinned by maths for example.

Quite simply we can’t afford for people to ‘not be maths people’

Show quote history

I might support your argument about maths underpinning the economy if this was all part of a wider strategy. It is not. The government obviously do not understand economics and even what high productivity means in some cases.

LoveMaths · 04/01/2023 13:11

I am just wondering where he plans to find all the maths teachers?

bluelavender · 04/01/2023 13:12

Goldenbear · 04/01/2023 13:10

BritAbroad101, we have an innovation problem with our current Economy how is a focus on maths and a disregard for the creative subjects (I.e by discouraging children from studying them until 18 and beyond) going to solve this? Innovation is what is needed for the current and future economy, do you think the industrial revolution would have happened if people didn’t have creative ideas?

I thought that engineers drove forward the industrial revolution? (That's what I learnt in my advanced history studies)

BradfordGirl · 04/01/2023 13:13

We need high quality manufacturing. That is what we need. Instead our manufacturing % of GDP keeps reducing and our car industry is headed for oblivion.

Whatafustercluck · 04/01/2023 13:13

I don't think teaching maths as it currently stands until age 18 is sensible. I think learning economics, analytical skills and the ability to apply critical thinking is far more important than numeracy. I've had a pretty solid career, but it has only ever really drawn on basic maths (I.e. for budgeting purposes) the rest has been critical thinking and analysis. And this is for literacy based career.

Goldenbear · 04/01/2023 13:13

Developing new software for an internal companies use is a creative thought process, it is not just the application of maths!

Onnabugeisha · 04/01/2023 13:13

ohfourfoxache · 04/01/2023 11:09

It’s just another fucking dead cat

Ignoring what the country actually needs and proposing some piss poor policy to divert attention from their utter fuck ups

Couldn’t have fucking said it better.
It’s like fiddling while Rome burns.

BradfordGirl · 04/01/2023 13:13

@LoveMaths He thinks any TA can teach maths.

Hobbi · 04/01/2023 13:14

It would be nice if everyone was educated enough to look at simple data regarding, say, the economy after Brexit and realise they are lied to on a daily basis. Or understand that tax cuts for the rich are unlikely to result in better outcomes for the poor. Or that crippling student debt is an exercise in class division. Or understand that a very weak pound is more of an issue than when planning holiday spending money. Or that the current inflation crisis is not wage driven and increasing the pay of low paid workers seldom has an inflationary effect. Or understand what a billion is in relation to a million - putting the bakshish and cronyism of the last few years into perspective. Or, perhaps especially relevant to this discussion, that Michael Gove's assertion that all pupils can be above average is a statement fit for ridicule. I wonder if Sunak agrees with these mathematical facts.

DisneyChops · 04/01/2023 13:15

It's not a terrible idea, but I do wonder where they'll find the maths teachers. There aren't enough at KS3 and 4, never mind above 16.

PinkArt · 04/01/2023 13:15

I studied it until 17 and I think I've barely used anything beyond what I learned at primary in my adult life. Personally I'd be more in favour of English being manadatory until 18 if he wants to push a core subject. Communication skills are something we all use every day, regardless of job.

MarshaBradyo · 04/01/2023 13:17

Whatafustercluck · 04/01/2023 13:13

I don't think teaching maths as it currently stands until age 18 is sensible. I think learning economics, analytical skills and the ability to apply critical thinking is far more important than numeracy. I've had a pretty solid career, but it has only ever really drawn on basic maths (I.e. for budgeting purposes) the rest has been critical thinking and analysis. And this is for literacy based career.

Yes. We need children to be better prepared for what gets thrown at them and I include the media and SM in that.

Economics and critical thinking is very important

KathyWilliams · 04/01/2023 13:18

It's a terrible idea. They'd be better off changing Maths further down the school so that those who are not good at Maths leave school with at least a good grasp of basic arithmetic (because that's all most of us will ever need in our lives). This should happen anyway via Maths GCSE, but it somehow seems not to. One of the best things about the sixth form for me was that I didn't have to suffer any more Maths or science.

I think they ought to make Music and Latin compulsory, personally, because they're both a whole lot more useful and rewarding than Maths.