AIBU to think Rishi Sunak is sadistic and unreasonable to want all pupils to study maths up to 18?

[Boysgrownbutstillathome]

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-64158179

We’re still going to need construction workers, hospitality staff, care assistants etc etc etc

I can't seriously see this ever happening. There aren't enough maths teachers around as it is, and any maths teacher will tell you that trying to teach maths to secondary aged pupils who don't want to do it is hell on earth.

So quietly the reforms to childcare have been dropped and this is the distraction.

I am not impressed. Every family needs access to affordable childcare. The reforms they were proposing were extremely conservative and would have helped reduce the cost of childcare.

YABU.

It’s about the needs of the future. It’s essential. it is also a social mobility thing. However posh/articulate/confident you are - maths is maths is maths. It’s a good way of getting merit to the top.

@Goldenbear it no longer has to be an either/or on Maths/Science or the Arts. Our creative industries are really tech heavy. We are good at computer game design, movie special effects and light shows (like at new year with the drones). There's a mix of skills needed to deliver this; with maths being one of those skills...

bluelavender you need creative subjects to be any good or to lever an advantage in the careers you are discussing.

@AlecTrevelyan006
Construction workers probably use applied mathematics more than most professions.

I am a statistician and I think this is a bad idea it will need excellent maths teachers where are they it is very hard to recruit and fewer people are entering yea her training each year. My post 16 maths teachers were awful and that was well over 30 years ago and in a grammar school

I’m no fan of Sunak or the tories but he’s right here

We are falling behind China (amongst many other nations) economically because we are not as numerate. It underpins so much in modern economies

We need our children / future generations to be able to compete with those countries future generations

They may well do but I don’t know any plumbers, brickies or electricians that studied A level maths.

@AlecTrevelyan006 are we still going to have hospitality workers in the same way? 20 years ago we might have thoughts that we will always need check out staff.

Robots may have a big role to play in future care delivery; and why do we want our care staff to stay as a low paid sector? And what about progression for people in construction and care roles? Do you think that they should be held back from management jobs because they've never been taught the maths skills to budget and forecast?

Personally I think it would be better to focus on what can be done to ensure that all kids leave at the end of year 11 with an acceptable level of maths. Making them do an extra two years makes no sense when the teaching is already inadequate to help all students reach that level.

Perhaps a better option would actually having maths teachers teaching in primary level? Having subject specific teaching for at least some of the lessons to help those who are struggling. If your not a maths teacher it's not always easy to find ways of helping kids understand it

Why you just need to employ more teachers. The extra funding is in your baseline.

@Goldenbear yes; of course design skills are also needed. But would it not be better for the creative lead to have enough maths skills to be confident working with sub contractors and budgets?

I think it's a good idea if they invest the resources in the subject from a younger age.

Otherwise many children continue to switch off before leaving primary school and miss basic concepts that are crucial to take the subject at any higher level. This then feels like torture as they don't have the basic foundation to build on.

@bluelavender you can't get them. They don't exist. Teachers in maths and languages, oh and economics are hard to find. And certainly not good ones!

Not everyone can be, or wants to be, a manager.

besides which - I am a manager in the construction industry. I have a grade C O level in maths and it has served me well enough. I’ve done plenty of budgeting and forecasting over the years.

YABU. I'm not great at maths today, I think I was badly taught because I was good at things like physics but my maths let me down. If I had studied a bit more maths, maybe I would be better at it, it certainly wouldn't have done me any harm to do another two years.

@AlecTrevelyan006 I don't think we should be expecting children at 16 to know whether or not they would like have the option of management career. I think we should ensure that all children have opportunities to flourish; and in the next 20 years maths and tech skills will be even more important than they are now

It hardly feels like the greatest of priorities right now, does it? We've got a health service in absolute chaos. an economy teetering on the brink and it would be easier to list public sector workforces that aren't planning strikes than those that are. Then there's the minor matter of a conflict in Europe that could well escalate to WWIII. And he comes out with this jolly wheeze of an idea? Has he even stopped to think where exactly the extra maths teachers are going to come from?

Besides all that, whilst maths is a valuable skill, it's not for everyone and that's OK. Pupils should be encouraged to focus on things they are good at, not forced to embrace the PM's pet subject.

bluelavender My point is, why not English Literature studies until 18, the Arts equally have merit in producing people who can think creatively about work. I work in data protection/cyber security and have an English lit Masters, my DH is an Architect so Is adept in using design software but went to Art college which has given him advantages with building designs and the aesthetic eye. It is not solely about understanding the software and the maths if you want to do well in Architecture!

Yes same here. I would have bitten their hand off. I think it's a good thing.

@Goldenbear it's not an either/or- I'm not advocating that every child sits A level maths. I think it would be much more interesting to learn relevant maths skills in an applied way. My degree was arts based (and highly relevant to my work); as I've become more senior I've had to develop more maths skills to be able to better understand data to inform decision making. As a country; we are not really all that good at adult learning so I think it's good to have this as a core skill for all young people

I agree that all children should have the opportunity to flourish. I disagree that forcing maths upon students with neither the desire or talent to pursue that option is doing them any good. Successive governments have neglected vocational and creative courses in favour of forcing people down academic routes that not everyone is suited to. The result being that we too many young people with worthless degrees, saddled with debt and burdened by unrealistic expectations.

This latest idea is just a typical example of an out of touch MP - but why should be surprised when the PM thinks a homeless person is just taking a sabbatical from his high flying career at Goldman Sachs.

I haven’t read the ins and outs, and I am a vehement Tory objector, but I can’t see this as a bad thing. I wish it would include education around finance and taxation too.