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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

AIBU to think Rishi Sunak is sadistic and unreasonable to want all pupils to study maths up to 18?

275 replies

Boysgrownbutstillathome · 04/01/2023 10:59

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-64158179

OP posts:
Rainbowshit · 04/01/2023 13:19

I cautiously think it's a good idea if they can get the execution right.

Can it be done in a more accessible way alongside practical skills so pupils can see the benefit of it rather than being turned off by having to turn up for a maths class ? E.g. measuring area in a joinery class, percentages to ratio up a recipe in food tech. A class about household finances covering interest and tax.

Carolservicedeprived · 04/01/2023 13:20

Even GCSE maths is currently deeply theoretical and full of stuff nobody needs for real life. Until they change the curriculum to include actually useful maths eg inflation, interest rates, tax rates, household budgeting etc rather than equations etc, I would not support any additional compulsory maths. Plenty of kids struggle to pass GCSE maths which is seen as a minimum requirement. You're just setting more kids up for failure by making them continue with pointless maths they can't do and will never use.

BradfordGirl · 04/01/2023 13:20

@Rainbowshit That is arithmetic and is not what should be being taught post 16. If they are teaching that it means pupils have not understood earlier teaching.

TheIsaacs · 04/01/2023 13:21

I have always struggled maths but on paper this seems a good idea; as long as the maths curriculum is reformed that is- which it won’t be. Maths would be of more benefit and be less tedious for pupils if it actually taught real world mathematics application. For example: what tax actually is, how it is calculated, what mortgage rates are and how it’s calculated, how to know how to calculate your salary, how working out an angle and similar ACTUALLY could be useful in the real world when building yourself something. Trigonometry is all very well, but if I had known what parts would actually be useful to me in real life I might have made more of an effort!

BradfordGirl · 04/01/2023 13:22

The last thing we need is a dumbing down of maths. That would be a disaster for the economy.
Teach catch up basics to teenagers by all means, but maths should be about calculus and equations and differentiation.

Goldenbear · 04/01/2023 13:22

Yes, critical thinking is essential in achieving a successful economy.

Hobbi · 04/01/2023 13:25

Rainbowshit · 04/01/2023 13:19

I cautiously think it's a good idea if they can get the execution right.

Can it be done in a more accessible way alongside practical skills so pupils can see the benefit of it rather than being turned off by having to turn up for a maths class ? E.g. measuring area in a joinery class, percentages to ratio up a recipe in food tech. A class about household finances covering interest and tax.

Do you honestly think people teach these subjects without including these elements?

Soothsayer1 · 04/01/2023 13:25

Goldenbear · 04/01/2023 13:22

Yes, critical thinking is essential in achieving a successful economy.

I agree, but too many critical thinkers in the populace is a big headache for the government, they want us to be as dumb and compliant as possible.

notimagain · 04/01/2023 13:25

how is a focus on maths and a disregard for the creative subjects

Disregarding the creative subjects in favour of maths would of course be wrong the disciplines are not mutually exclusive....

A tremendous amount of creativity and certainly imagination was needed by single individuals such the likes of Newton and Einstein.

Dreamsoffreedomjoyandpeace · 04/01/2023 13:27

I think it would be a good idea to teach all children politics up to the age of eighteen so that they know exactly what they’re voting for.

I wonder why he’s not promoting this….

Rainbowshit · 04/01/2023 13:27

BradfordGirl · 04/01/2023 13:20

@Rainbowshit That is arithmetic and is not what should be being taught post 16. If they are teaching that it means pupils have not understood earlier teaching.

Yes it is arithmetic and I very much disagree that calculus and differentiation should be being taught to pupils who will struggle with it. It will be counter productive and a waste of time and resources.

Practical applications are a way of showing pupils who struggle with maths how it is necessary in their every day life. It gives them what they will need to help progress in their careers and every day lives. That's the end goal here surely?

Soothsayer1 · 04/01/2023 13:28

The way I see it there's a difficult trade-off for the government ...
on the one hand in order to get what they want they need us to be dumb and compliant
on the other hand in order for them to have a successful innovative economy they need us to be highly educated critical thinkers, happy relaxed people who can explore their talents and abilities and fully flourish as human beings

blackpearwhitelilies · 04/01/2023 13:30

The creative subjects have been whittled away and disregarded for years now. Some of them - eg Music - are excellent vehicles for Maths in an alternative form.

I wish that the plight of languages would generate this level of engagement. It speaks volumes that it doesn’t. The rest of the world does not speak English - that is a myth - and, even when you are at an Anglophone international conference or trade talks, there are all the important conversations over dinner and in side rooms from which monoglots are excluded. At the most basic level it ought to be a matter of courtesy to try to speak the language of a country you are visiting.

BradfordGirl · 04/01/2023 13:30

@Rainbowshit But they should be being taught arithmetic anyway. It might be reasonable to say those who have not grasped arithmetic carry on being taught it until they progress to maths - if they do.

Livinginanotherworld · 04/01/2023 13:31

The best thing he could have done was to overhaul the entire system and bring In the IB instead of the archaic system of GCSE and A Levels to enable a more broader general education for all.

Rainbowshit · 04/01/2023 13:31

@Hobbi

Do you honestly think people teach these subjects without including these elements?

No of course not, don't be bloody ridiculous. I think it should count towards what they are talking about though as it's what people really need.

PeonyRose80 · 04/01/2023 13:34

Sounds like a great idea… but, hellooo, nhs on it’s knees… right now! Can we worry about that first please Mr PM

Hercisback · 04/01/2023 13:34

WE ALREADY TEACH FINANCE. Shock horror teenagers don't really see the point!

LoveMaths · 04/01/2023 13:34

I mean, of course he does. And how silly of me 😆

Delatron · 04/01/2023 13:35

My 11 year old is very good at maths. I’m not sure I’d take that as a criticism of the general population…

I have one dyslexic boy who is highly creative but his dyslexia manifests itself in his maths - poor working memory. I was focusing on just getting him through his GCSEs then he can focus on all the subjects he is far better at and that build his confidence.

I’d hate this proposal to include more exams to make these children for whom maths isn’t their strength, feel more shit about themselves.

By all means carry on with some useful life maths for them - household finances, tax, general mental arithmetic. But do they really all need to carry on studying geometry/calculus/algebra?

As the word becomes more computerised we need people with creativity and people skills. Not everyone will excel in maths.

Hobbi · 04/01/2023 13:35

Rainbowshit · 04/01/2023 13:31

@Hobbi

Do you honestly think people teach these subjects without including these elements?

No of course not, don't be bloody ridiculous. I think it should count towards what they are talking about though as it's what people really need.

I'm afraid you've
overestimated the genuine interest the likes of Sunak have in this issue, let alone something they consider as low class as FE based practical skills. It's all distraction or he'd know all students need to attain a certain level before they're 18 anyway.

Delatron · 04/01/2023 13:36

blackpearwhitelilies · 04/01/2023 13:30

The creative subjects have been whittled away and disregarded for years now. Some of them - eg Music - are excellent vehicles for Maths in an alternative form.

I wish that the plight of languages would generate this level of engagement. It speaks volumes that it doesn’t. The rest of the world does not speak English - that is a myth - and, even when you are at an Anglophone international conference or trade talks, there are all the important conversations over dinner and in side rooms from which monoglots are excluded. At the most basic level it ought to be a matter of courtesy to try to speak the language of a country you are visiting.

I completely agree with you.

bluelavender · 04/01/2023 13:36

I agree with posters who suggest that we reform education between 11-18. I don't think our current system is working

JustHereWithMyPopcorn · 04/01/2023 13:36

I think teaching practical numeracy for every day living would be beneficial to all young people. Understanding how taxes work, how to do basic accounting, interest rates, bank acocunts etc.

Hobbi · 04/01/2023 13:39

@JustHereWithMyPopcorn
Compound interest, variable rates, probability and accurate accountancy are not simple though. Persuading people they are is how banks, insurance companies and investment companies make their money. And bookies. And accountants. I agree they should be taught though.

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