AIBU to think Rishi Sunak is sadistic and unreasonable to want all pupils to study maths up to 18?

[Boysgrownbutstillathome]

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-64158179

...total stealth boast there

Sorry not sorrry...backs away from the thread

Thanks everyone for an interesting discussion. I agree "sadistic" is a bit extreme ( it was a bit tongue in cheek) but still think it unreasonable to make continued maths up to 18 compulsory for everyone. My autistic son, who is now 26 and has learning disabilities had to do three extra years of maths, English and ICT as part of his post-16 education and it made him miserable and caused no end of difficult, aggressive behaviour . His loves are sport and performing arts and now he can focus on them we hardly ever get any aggression .

In my view Rishi would be better to invest in funding adult education Maths and other courses - evening classes, online classes etc rather than forcing another two years on classroom students. And as many have said in practical terms it is unworkable - we don't have enough Maths teachers as it is.

I honestly don't know how the children who are currently in education are going to manage once they're old enough to leave school. The state of things is horrendous and only worsening, they'll be living either at home or in absolute squalor and in debt. Honestly there'll be so few of then who go on to have children themselves. Why should they? If things continue in this way their own children won't have a pot to piss in.

Oh and a bit of algebra probably won't help that, might I add.

The whole maths curriculum needs looking at. We have pupils who don't get a 4 or more at GCSE.

Is the GCSE curriculum fit for purpose? What maths do we people need? What maths should be studied post 16?

It's a soundbite.The devil is in the detail.

Of course, if people get a better understanding of statistics, they might start questioning Government figures.

Not more than 30% of maths I learned in my 16 years of study has actually seen the sunlight in real life.

But the process of learning to thinking logically and the training of analytical mind is invaluable and beneficial for life.

Most of us can't see it.

This is a complete and utter soundbite to divert attention away from the dire situation of the NHS. I suspect that Rishi actually couldn't give a shit about maths (and while we're on the subject, what about music/art etc etc tuition to 18?? Those are just as important to a lot of people).

This is, purely and simply a ruse to divert attention from the NHS. Please treat it with the contempt it deserves

It's annoying that papers are doing the "Can you pass A-Level Maths" style quesrions in response to this when it's clearly not about A-Level maths.

I'd like to propose Philosophy as an essential subject, if we're at it. Logic, creation and critique of arguments. Useful on a daily basis (much more than geometry or algebra).

I wonder if elective topics would be better so that for example those who thrive on algebra could opt for that, but those who just don't get the more abstract concepts and it's those that are preventing a pass could play to their strengths.

YANBU

I hated school until I was able to specialise. The subjects I wasn't good at brought my grades down and I couldn't focus on what I was good at because I spent so much time trying to grasp maths and science, when I would clearly never go into a field that required them.

A levels were amazing by contrast and I got top marks, and really enjoyed it.

I think the level of proficiency now required is enough. When you're forced to study things you're just not good at or interested in beyond that, it can damage your confidence and enjoyment of school as a whole. And it can taint your whole school experience with the feeling of stress and being stupid, instead of excelling in your chosen subjects.

He really hasn't made it clear what he expects to be taught.
Children who excel at maths and sciences will be studying them anyway
Those that passed maths surely don't need to be studying to A'level and those that didn't pass are already compelled to resit GCSE maths until they obtain a pass.

We need good empathetic teachers. We need to be looking at what puts young people off maths and finding a better approach. John Holt wrote in detail about this year's ago.
We can be certain there won't be enough good quality A level teachers of all they want is to offer more of what we have.

On a personal note I failed A level maths but passed the pure maths part of the course with flying colours when I redid it as part of my degree. It was a combination of being a bit burnt out/not quite ready for A levels and absolutely amazing first class teaching for degree module.

but it’s not clear what it’s about.

Sunak said that all pupils will have to study some form of maths till 18. So, if they’ve already passed GCSE maths they are going to have continue studying maths regardless, which can only really mean either redoing GCSE in order to get a better grade or doing an A level. And it’s not clear whether this will instead of, or as well as, other subjects.

Useful on a daily basis (much more than geometry or algebra).

Anyone working in IT will be using algebra on a daily basis - as do most of us in daily life. If you work out the cost of 4 apples at 49p each, that's just x=49, 4x=?

(I have no idea what apples cost, I realise.)

I’m confused by the furore over this, this has been a thing for a few years now?

No it hasn't. My DS is currently in Year 12 and there is no requirement for pupils to do maths if they don't wish to. The school does offer a year of Core Maths for those who aren't doing A level but wish to go beyond GCSE and it's encouraged for those doing any sciences but not maths, but it isn't mandatory. None of his friends who are studying only humanities/languages etc are doing any maths.
I believe it's already required that pupils who don't achieve a 4 at GCSE have to continue, but not everyone. This suggestion (I think "plan" is a bit optimistic) would require all pupils to continue with maths, even those who have achieved a GCSE pass but have opted to study other things at 6th form/* *college.
That would put a huge additional workload on institutions which offer a wide range of post 16 qualifications as they will have a lot of pupils who don't currently do maths.

x = 49
x = x+1

That's IT

This suggestion (I think "plan" is a bit optimistic) would require all pupils to continue with maths, even those who have achieved a GCSE pass but have opted to study other things at 6th form/ college.

Also the provision for a child who obtained grades 6,7,8,9 at maths and owed not to continue to A'level and that for those who scraped a 4 would have to look very different.

If someone from the govt is reading this, we've done a lot of thinking for you. Please let us know where to send the invoice

*opted

We need to change the whole way the maths curriculum is delivered. For the vast majority of people they don’t need to know things to a higher level they need to have a firm grasp of the maths they will need in day to day life AND understand it’s relevance to them in life.

if people feel it’s not relevant to them, or get in a mindset of “I can’t” then it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy.

With the state of the NHS they'd do better learning First Aid and Survival Skills.

Sensible answer is that kids are already studying maths to age 18, they just don't know it because the maths needs are tailored specifically to the course.

So hairdressers need maths training in ratios to mix hair dye. Mechanics need to learn about things like pressure. Neither needs to know quadratic equations, however, someone doing a computer science course might do depending on what they are studying. Someone studying humanities might learn statistics from studying data that they've researched.

The maths they are taught is the beginning of their specialisation within their interests. An arbitrary qualification on top of this is pointless and likely to have the opposite effect- it will turn kids off learning.

He'd do better to create an robust employability and life skills course- things like how to present something at a meeting, how to use spreadsheets and PowerPoint or whatever, basic employment law, how not to piss your boss off, how to make a decent cuppa for your team... Whatever.

Very true - we have a friend who because it was so remote where he lived had to study an element of medicine/health (I can't remember the details) along with his engineering degree.

Those who say Rishi's idea is great because they do it in America. I thought the US had no exams at 16 hence Maths is one of their subjects at 18?