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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Are they all hiding in a fucking fridge?

627 replies

noblegiraffe · 02/01/2023 22:37

The government? Where is the leadership? The reassurance that the problem is being addressed with urgency? Cobra meetings? Horrendous stories coming out of A&E departments right now.

Steve Barclay, the Health Secretary today announced on twitter that people should download the Couch to 5k app to reduce pressure on the NHS.

twitter.com/stevebarclay/status/1609957311610556416?s=61&t=rHTkCD1w_H9OmH9UB2E4UQ

Do your fucking job, Steve. And Rishi, show some leadership. You bloody wanted this job so badly, where have you gone?

www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-64142614

OP posts:
theworldhas · 03/01/2023 09:30

Brexit is costing the country approx £40 billion a year in lost tax revenues. If you voted for the Tories or Brexit I hope you accept these consequences.

www.itv.com/news/2022-12-20/brexit-costs-government-40-billion-a-year-in-lost-tax-revenue

With Brexit, the likes of Sunak and Johnson have achieved something beyond the dreams of Britain’s fiercest rivals.

LadyMonicaBaddingham · 03/01/2023 09:35

Emmamoo89 · 02/01/2023 22:46

I'm sorry I had to laugh. Made me think of the times I used to put the butler in the fridge on tombraider 🤣🤣

Memory unlocked, I'd completely forgotten about doing that!! 😆

Kendodd · 03/01/2023 09:36

UpToMyElbowsInDiapers · 02/01/2023 23:57

My family and I (in Canada) were just talking about this. Where are the protests??? Bungled Brexit, insane energy prices, double digit inflation, higher rates of COVID deaths than in most of the western world, the NHS on its knees… in France, this would cause a shortage of tyres for the number that were being burned in the streets! I understand the stiff upper lip to an extent, but enough is enough, Britons need to find their rage and actually channel it in a public and organized way. The current government is such a shambles, and there seems to be such a high tolerance level for its incompetence. It’s truly shocking to outsiders.

Show quote history

I think it's because the English love the Tories and don't forget, we voted for Brexit, nobody forced us to, for those who voted for it, it has become part of their identity. You don't march in protest against yourself and what you voted for.

Original poster
noblegiraffe · 03/01/2023 09:36

Shelefttheweb · 03/01/2023 09:28

according to the British Medical Association (BMA)

Remember this is like asking the RMT if they think train drivers need a 30% pay rise. Yes the NHS is in a mess but the BMA are not impartial commentators - their whole raison d’etre is get better deals for their members.

In 2008 the BMA voted restrict the number of places at medical schools to avoid “overproduction of doctors” which might impact on their limited career opportunities. They also agreed on a complete ban on opening new medical schools. This despite the fact that the majority of new donors registered with the GMC are now trained outside the UK.

So you think the BMA are lying about the situation in A&Es in order to improve their negotiating position in the pay dispute.

How do you explain the photos and terrible stories coming out of hospitals, the running out of oxygen cylinders, the awful wait times? Are they being engineered by the BMA?

Or should we perhaps consider accepting the BMA's description of the situation as 'intolerable and unsustainable'?

OP posts:
Fireyflies · 03/01/2023 09:38

Anyone who believes that by taking care of your own health it's possible never to need the NHS and so be affected by its collapse has clearly lived a charmed life and is capable of complete self delusion. It's the government's job to ensure healthcare for its citizens. How can anyone seriously suggest that it's right that we're collectively "punished" for unhealthy lifestyles (of ourselves or others) by having no access to healthcare?

MotherOfUnicorns4 · 03/01/2023 09:38

The problem with keeping kids off school when they are unwell is the fact that schools put pressure on parents to get their kids to school. Letters sent out, warnings that attendance is below the norm, threats of fines, home visits to check they're really ill. I'm happy to keep my child at home when they're poorly. It benefits them to recover fully and it stops unnecessary spread. What I'm unhappy about is the risk of feeling I'm doing something wrong from school.

WiseUpJanetWeiss · 03/01/2023 09:39

Greatly · 03/01/2023 07:27

I'd be happy to see some of the nhs partially privatised. A mix of means tested insurance and govt funding is now our only solution, and a sensible one as we are getting older as a nation.

Can you explain how that will help and what threshold you'd apply for the means testing?

kafkascastle · 03/01/2023 09:39

noblegiraffe · 03/01/2023 00:05

Problem is, anyone who is eligible for their jabs and who wants it have had it.

I’m not sure that’s entirely true, they haven’t got around to my DS’s school with the flu jab yet, for example, and I know people eligible for the covid jab or booster who couldn’t have it at the time due to having covid and then didn’t get round to it.

It might be useful to know how many of those in hospital were eligible but not vaccinated.

And would it be possible to extend eligibility for the vaccines to reduce spread? Some people certainly want e.g. the covid jab but are under 50, or the flu jab but can’t afford it. My school pays for the flu vaccine for staff, could this be rolled out to all school staff?

I don’t know. But I have no idea whether the government is even discussing this sort of thing, or indeed anything.

I think you are missing the point. This isn’t just about flu and covid. Though I would say that having a flu jab didn’t prevent me getting flu and spending over a week in hospital, in a ward with extra beds with no facilities for them or the staff to support us and it was frightening. This was before Brexit and European staff had to return home. The NHS has been underfunded for years. Patients cannot be discharged because there are no carers to look after them, care home staff are struggling to recruit and so it goes on. This is the result. It will get worse.

LittleDisaster · 03/01/2023 09:39

noblegiraffe · 03/01/2023 09:36

So you think the BMA are lying about the situation in A&Es in order to improve their negotiating position in the pay dispute.

How do you explain the photos and terrible stories coming out of hospitals, the running out of oxygen cylinders, the awful wait times? Are they being engineered by the BMA?

Or should we perhaps consider accepting the BMA's description of the situation as 'intolerable and unsustainable'?

Show quote history

It is a fair point that the BMA has contributed to the creation of this situation by restricting training places though.

Kendodd · 03/01/2023 09:39

ClaudiusTheGod · 02/01/2023 23:38

Do what Iam4eels said above. The money can be found.

And fgs let’s start improving the health of the nation starting with the obesity crisis. Sugar tax, ultra-high processed food tax. We are eating ourselves to death.

That would be a nanny state though and we can't tax business (although we can bankrupt them with Brexit). Fundamentally against Tory values.

theworldhas · 03/01/2023 09:41

Has an advanced democracy every had a government that so blatantly didn’t give a shit about the vast majority of the electorate? There are a few, very few, notable exceptions, but I genuinely think that 90% of the government couldn’t give a toss right now about anything beyond their own well-being and where they will fall in two years time when they probably lose their seat.

Forever42 · 03/01/2023 09:43

The problem with keeping kids off school when they are unwell is the fact that schools put pressure on parents to get their kids to school.

Also employers not liking parents taking time off to look after unwell kids.

theworldhas · 03/01/2023 09:43

@greatly
oh no, the Tories look on course to be out of power for a decade or more having wrecked things for 90% of the electorate. Quick, destroy the NHS while we still can!

Keskadale · 03/01/2023 09:43

Shelefttheweb · 03/01/2023 09:28

according to the British Medical Association (BMA)

Remember this is like asking the RMT if they think train drivers need a 30% pay rise. Yes the NHS is in a mess but the BMA are not impartial commentators - their whole raison d’etre is get better deals for their members.

In 2008 the BMA voted restrict the number of places at medical schools to avoid “overproduction of doctors” which might impact on their limited career opportunities. They also agreed on a complete ban on opening new medical schools. This despite the fact that the majority of new donors registered with the GMC are now trained outside the UK.

BMA don't increase med school places and the Tories don't have to do a thing they say, they ve had 13 years to increase med school places but haven't.

What the Cons did do is remove the nursing bursary instead and give us 10 years of austerity, slashing adult social care workers and funding for council places.

Labour warned all about this in their 2015 GE campaign, we ignored it.

all what we see is on us.

neonstarburst · 03/01/2023 09:44

I have an elderly relative in his 90s who was taken to hospital by ambulance recently. The wait for an ambulance wasn’t too long, however once there he spent 24hrs in a tent outside, then a further 48hrs inside a&e before being admitted. There are similar stories on the local news. They’ve said there’s a ‘critical incident’ and are asking people not to call 999 in the area. It’s scary.

LittleDisaster · 03/01/2023 09:45

Fireyflies · 03/01/2023 09:38

Anyone who believes that by taking care of your own health it's possible never to need the NHS and so be affected by its collapse has clearly lived a charmed life and is capable of complete self delusion. It's the government's job to ensure healthcare for its citizens. How can anyone seriously suggest that it's right that we're collectively "punished" for unhealthy lifestyles (of ourselves or others) by having no access to healthcare?

No body believes it would mean you "never" need the NHS or that it would reduce NHS use by everyone. But getting e.g. diabetes reduced even 30% would make a massive difference to the use of the NHS.

Increase that across all the other lifestyle related illnesses and you'd have real impact.

Kendodd · 03/01/2023 09:45

theworldhas · 03/01/2023 09:30

Brexit is costing the country approx £40 billion a year in lost tax revenues. If you voted for the Tories or Brexit I hope you accept these consequences.

www.itv.com/news/2022-12-20/brexit-costs-government-40-billion-a-year-in-lost-tax-revenue

With Brexit, the likes of Sunak and Johnson have achieved something beyond the dreams of Britain’s fiercest rivals.

I know very, very few Leave voters who have changed their minds though. Any price is worth paying for Brexit, even if it completely bankrupts the country and everyone in it. Personally, their position baffles me, I guess the 'freedom' to pump shit straight into the sea is important to them though.

VerifiedBot2351 · 03/01/2023 09:47

I was lucky to get a flu jab organised by my work. Without that, I would not have been able to get one, despite being allowed a free one, as the times they were available were when I am at work and I cannot get time off.

Kendodd · 03/01/2023 09:48

Keskadale · 03/01/2023 09:43

BMA don't increase med school places and the Tories don't have to do a thing they say, they ve had 13 years to increase med school places but haven't.

What the Cons did do is remove the nursing bursary instead and give us 10 years of austerity, slashing adult social care workers and funding for council places.

Labour warned all about this in their 2015 GE campaign, we ignored it.

all what we see is on us.

Show quote history

The Tories also reduced med school placements this year by 25%

www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-62594141

Tippexy · 03/01/2023 09:48

VerifiedBot2351 · 03/01/2023 09:47

I was lucky to get a flu jab organised by my work. Without that, I would not have been able to get one, despite being allowed a free one, as the times they were available were when I am at work and I cannot get time off.

In Boots, Lloyds, Superdrug, Tesco, Asda? Not a single one offered a slot you could make? Gosh.

willingtolearn · 03/01/2023 09:49

@JoanOfAllTrades

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/22336796/#:~:text=Tap%20water%20was%20more%20effective,%25%20CI%200.43%20to%202.64).

Tap water was more effective than saline in reducing the infection rate in adults with acute wounds (RR 0.63, 95% CI 0.40 to 0.99). The use of tap water to cleanse acute wounds in children was not associated with a statistically significant difference in infection when compared to saline (RR 1.07, 95% CI 0.43 to 2.64).

Walkaround · 03/01/2023 09:50

Squamata · 03/01/2023 09:08

The problem is that we have an ageing population who don't want to pay more tax (or in some cases can't afford any more tax). You get the 'I paid NI all my life' argument if you raise it. And oldies vote, so politicians don't want to piss them off.

Brexit has cut the supply of cheap labour so everything is costing more.

Younger generations can't afford to pay more tax because of student loans, housing costs, childcare costs, cost of living.

Something's going to have to give, and it's probably going to be inheritance tax. But that will not go down well with the electorate, so politicians are desperately scrabbling around for something else, like telling people to start jogging. Evidently they are more prepared to accept nanny state stuff than taxing the unearned wealth of boomers.

And with the NHS, the Tories definitely want to make it so bad that people are prepared to accept privatisation. It's disaster capitalism.

Ah yes - inheritance tax, so the truly wealthy can hide even more money in offshore tax havens and pay even less tax still. There is huge wealth in the world that is totally untaxed and a lot of the expertise in setting up the legal structures to permit this comes from the UK (after UKplc has also laundered the money that wasn’t even legitimately earned in the first place and which is now being used to fund wars). The rest of the insufficiently taxed wealth comes from the global race to the bottom - trying to attract businesses away from other countries with promises of low tax rates, and making up for it by taxing the easy targets (the human beings doing the real work, who can’t hide or run away). Big business has removed itself from any sense of responsibility for anything but maximising profit, and neoliberal capitalism has exempted government from any great sense of responsibility for anything either, because “the markets” supposedly sort everything out (by hiding the money from democratic oversight or control ).

C8H10N4O2 · 03/01/2023 09:52

noblegiraffe · 02/01/2023 23:17

Lots of people in hospital currently with covid and with flu. Were they vaccinated? Were they eligible for vaccination?

Could we have a big vaccination push instead of tweets about jogging?

Or how about we get the actual data on those in hospital to establish whether they were vaccinated first... And then expend effort where we have evidence for effectiveness.

Public health messages on healthy eating/exercise etc are typically from a separate budget for longer term public health.

theworldhas · 03/01/2023 09:52

@Kendodd
well, small credit where due, current polling suggests something like 56% bad idea, 32% good idea. (others don’t know) I guess some people are less likely to admit error to friends/family than they are with anonymous polling.

LittleDisaster · 03/01/2023 09:54

VerifiedBot2351 · 03/01/2023 09:47

I was lucky to get a flu jab organised by my work. Without that, I would not have been able to get one, despite being allowed a free one, as the times they were available were when I am at work and I cannot get time off.

You work 6 days pw and never have any leave?

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