Page 6 | To want my evenings back…at least sometimes

Kneepillowfan · 2023-01-02T19:33:11+00:00

I have a 5 month old DS. Every evening is the same and it’s really getting to me. I wait all day for my husband to come home at 5:30. He cooks and cleans and we have to take turns eating as baby needs constant entertainment, then we all have to just go to bed before 7pm as the baby won’t settle downstairs. Will not settle without me upstairs either. I’m breastfeeding and the only thing that makes baby happy after 6pmish is breastfeeding in bed with me on and off for an hour or so. I guess DH doesn’t need to come to bed with me as it’s me the baby wants but DH does come too so I don’t feel lonely. I love DS to pieces but am missing the times when DH and I used to watch a film in the evening, have dinner with a glass of wine. DH is currently out walking baby round the block to calm him down as I can’t eat when he’s screaming. Dinner was a bit later tonight as we went out for a food shop. We very much wanted to be parents and love our DS so much. We knew it would be difficult and I wouldn’t change anything (except maybe having a happy DS in the evenings). I don’t know what I need from MN right now but please be kind! I’m just exhausted and deflated. DS is the kind of baby that needs a lot of entertainment during the day too. He has 2 naps per day but they are only 30 mins. He wakes every 2 hours at night. I never get a break and I’m feeling drained 😞

Tomblibooz · 02/01/2023 22:40

I'm shocked at the amount of early weaning advice on this thread!

Sounds like baby is overstimulated and therefore overtired. This means bad nap/sleep routine. I've forgotten the name of it now but there's a good app for tracking sleep and it gives you recommended wake windows etc that's a really helpful guide.

We also survived this stage by having baby downstairs on me until about 9pm when I went to bed. Dimmed lights, volume low on the tv and subtitles.

Original poster

Kneepillowfan · 02/01/2023 22:41

pelargoniums · 02/01/2023 20:14

Some months with babies are just awful. But they do then change it up – often for something worse… Why won’t he settle downstairs: too light/noisy? Can you watch a film with headphones and lights out, with baby on you clusterfeeding? Not quite the same as a free evening but not banished upstairs either.

I agree 2x 30 minute naps doesn’t sound like much but I sympathise: DD used to nap max 20 mins at a time and had a short wake window, my days were spent entirely getting her to sleep over and over again for these tiny bursts. At 5-6 months she also used to sense if I wasn’t in the room at night and wake up, and would also only settle in her cot in the dark, so no evenings for me.

but it did all change! She’s in her own room sleeping through now. And I’m on the sofa clusterfeeding a newborn and doing it all again… You’ll get through it!

I suspect it is too light/noisy for him. We don’t see the point in being downstairs in the dark and silence with headphones on as that’s pretty much what we have to do upstairs. It would just be nice to either watch a film together or have a quiet chat downstairs, just to actually feel like we’ve spent any time together after DH has been at work all day

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Babyboomtastic · 02/01/2023 22:42

Cyantist · 02/01/2023 22:25

She just doesn’t like sleeping and tells us very often. To get her to sleep takes ages, we are lucky if we are downstairs by 9.
Maybe that wouldn’t be so bad for others but doesn’t give us much time for anything fun or relaxing. Though that’s partly because we have several hours work to do after that which obviously isn’t the case for most people

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We are the same (including often loading up the laptop afterwards). Believe me, we aren't alone, even if some people think it's ridiculous. For every 10w sleeping unicorn baby, there's another desperately trying to get their 3yo to sleep at the other end of the scale.

Calphurnia88 · 02/01/2023 22:45

Tomblibooz · 02/01/2023 22:40

I'm shocked at the amount of early weaning advice on this thread!

Sounds like baby is overstimulated and therefore overtired. This means bad nap/sleep routine. I've forgotten the name of it now but there's a good app for tracking sleep and it gives you recommended wake windows etc that's a really helpful guide.

We also survived this stage by having baby downstairs on me until about 9pm when I went to bed. Dimmed lights, volume low on the tv and subtitles.

It's called Huckleberry. I use it to track my baby's sleep but I found their recommended wake windows really stressful during the early months as my baby had slightly longer wake windows (cue a lot of upset and self-doubt while I was trying to work out why I couldn't get my baby to sleep when he was 'supposed' to).

I'm also pretty shocked by the amount of posters recommending early weaning.

itsmschanandlerbong · 02/01/2023 22:46

Does he fall asleep when feeding during the day? I have pretty much resigned myself to baby contact napping to get a longer stint of a nap. I need to feed to sleep to do this, My baby won't nap in his crib, he will occasionally nap for a short period of time in his pram. My baby had been an awful sleeper and the only thing that makes a difference is making sure he is napping enough during the day. His sleep has gradually gotten better, but he doesn't sleep through. He is 7 months old and I feel like we're starting to turn a corner now with being able to have a bit more time to ourselves.
Please don't listen to people who are telling you he needs to learn to self soothe - babies at that age aren't capable of learning this, or of manipulating you into needing more comfort. Some babies are just better at sleeping / being put down than others, it's their temperament more than anything.

LovingTheAbbreviations · 02/01/2023 22:46

Poor you! I feel your pain, I promise you this won’t be forever, year 1 was the hardest for us too. Our toddler now sleeps 11-12hrs at night plus 1-2 in the day. Bliss! And he is wonderful! However it was not always like this! We did sleep training, my mum stayed for 3 days and showed us how. At 5 months they need a certain about of nap time, 2 x 30 mins is defo a very short amount and I can’t exactly remember but I think I’d be aiming for more like 2 x 1.5hrs and 1 x 45mins naps per daytime at this stage. I would strongly recommend getting a sleep coach involved. We would have done this if my mum hadn’t come. But multiple friends did it and it saved their sanity. It’s not sleep training in the horrible old fashioned cry it out sense at all. Please give it a go it sounds like this will give you a bit of sanity back. Xxx

Overthebow · 02/01/2023 22:47

We had this until around 8 months, DC would just not settle early unless it was upstairs on me. We sleep trained in the end and it worked wonders, she has gone to bed between 7-7.30pm every night since and she’s now 2 years old. I wish I’d done it sooner.

elrider · 02/01/2023 22:52

LovingTheAbbreviations · 02/01/2023 22:46

Poor you! I feel your pain, I promise you this won’t be forever, year 1 was the hardest for us too. Our toddler now sleeps 11-12hrs at night plus 1-2 in the day. Bliss! And he is wonderful! However it was not always like this! We did sleep training, my mum stayed for 3 days and showed us how. At 5 months they need a certain about of nap time, 2 x 30 mins is defo a very short amount and I can’t exactly remember but I think I’d be aiming for more like 2 x 1.5hrs and 1 x 45mins naps per daytime at this stage. I would strongly recommend getting a sleep coach involved. We would have done this if my mum hadn’t come. But multiple friends did it and it saved their sanity. It’s not sleep training in the horrible old fashioned cry it out sense at all. Please give it a go it sounds like this will give you a bit of sanity back. Xxx

Can you explain your mum's sleep training method, please?

Original poster

Kneepillowfan · 02/01/2023 22:52

Topjoe19 · 02/01/2023 20:28

Have you got a swing chair or can you try one? We had awful evenings, trying to eat etc but tried a swing chair & DD would fall asleep for a bit at tea time so we could eat in peace. It's truly rubbish but it will all come together & you will get your evenings back! Keep trying with an evening routine too, bath/feed/dark room & singing softly/gently shushing/white noise. It's so hard & frustrating but it doesn't last forever (well until they're older & want 50 million things at bedtime to delay going to sleep but that's a whole other story!!)

Yes, we have a swing chair and it’s pretty much useless in the evening. He will sometimes tolerate being put in it earlier in the day for short periods to allow me to eat while sitting next to him. But other than that I have to be careful putting him in it as he is very long for his age so I can’t strap him in anymore. He can wriggle himself so he is dangling off the seat if he’s not in the mood to be in there. Will have to stop using it due to safety reasons!

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Original poster

Kneepillowfan · 02/01/2023 22:56

Merryoldgoat · 02/01/2023 20:31

I really empathise OP - my youngest baby was a limpet.

What have you tried?

I decamped and turned the living room into a second bedroom so I could watch TV with DH in the evening.

I used a vibrating bouncy chair/rocker which he liked.

I abandoned routines as his needs changed so much at that age that nothing stuck.

It was HARD but got better from 6m onwards if I recall correctly.

What have I tried? Everything haha.

Well we’ve tried having it quiet and dark in the living room but he still will not settle until we are in bed together. Also we don’t see the point I being downstairs if we must be in silence and darkness. He has a next to me crib next to my bed so I can only assume he views bed time with me as his happy/safe space.

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coconu · 02/01/2023 22:57

Long time reader and first time poster here but had to respond as I had the exact same situation with my now 6-month old until he was 5 months. Feeding to sleep and would not nap anywhere but his buggy (on the move!) during the day.

I read somewhere about breaking the ‘feeding to sleep’ cycle and it was the best thing we ever did. I was breastfeeding also at the time, and moved the last feed to an expressed bottle and did this earlier in his bedtime routine (usually downstairs but they say to aim for a room other than their sleeping room) - this seemed absolutely alien to me at the time as I just couldn’t imagine him settling without being breastfed to sleep in bed. It took maybe 3-4 nights of a long slog settling him, but we didn’t use cry-it-out or any of the tougher methods.

Really would recommend a sleep therapist if you can, or I found Lucy Woolf’s book amazing. Ours is now going down with no dramas, and it really helped the daytime nap situation too. The short daytime naps are really developmentally normal until 5-6 months so hopefully you see some improvement here soon! Good luck OP x

Original poster

Kneepillowfan · 02/01/2023 23:02

Whenlifegivesyoulemonsmakelemonade · 02/01/2023 20:34

I completely agree with this advice. I have also experienced the frequent nursing through the night and short naps during the day with both my DCs. Weaning at 6 months is recommended as that is when baby's gut is fully formed. It may be that your baby is waking for comfort due to teething or another reason, and I know it isn't helpful right now but this stage will definitely pass.

As for naps during the day, the only way we could get DD2 to sleep more than 30 min (i.e. one sleep cycle) was taking her out in the car. If they can get past the first sleep cycle and stay asleep into the next cycle, they will have at least an hour if not longer for a nap.

You are doing an amazing job, it is exhausting and I totally empathise with you wanting some time in the evening. Would it be possible to maybe slip downstairs again after baby is asleep and have an hour or so together before DC wakes up for another feed? That is how my DH and I eventually ended up managing some time together!

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I think when he’s 6 months I will try to sneak back downstairs to have an evening. I know the advice is to have him asleep in the same room as us for all sleeps until he’s 6 months. Although, I suspect it’s not going to go well. We have been in bed since 8:30 tonight and he is still feeding on and off while lying next to me. If I put him in his crib he kicks off until I give him my boob again!

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Flounder2022 · 02/01/2023 23:05

PolarBlair · 02/01/2023 19:47

Would you keep baby feeding on you in the sitting room while you watch tv and bring him up to bed when you're going yourself? That's what we do

This is what I always did! There really is no reason to wean, at least not for this reason!

Merryoldgoat · 02/01/2023 23:06

Fine OP. I was just trying to help.

I liked being downstairs because I didn’t feel like life was passing me by downstairs.

I never made my children sleep in the dark or quiet so I could hoover round them and they’d sleep in broad daylight for naps and normal low light in the evening. I could therefore watch TV whilst they slept either on me or in a small cot I had for downstairs.

It was shitty and not perfect but I decided that setup suited me best.

Legallypinkish · 02/01/2023 23:10

First babies are hard. Your life changes so much. It does get easier. The baby will start sleeping longer at some point. My eldest is 24 but I still remember just sitting for hours breast feeding him and waiting for my husband to come home to take over holding him.

theleafandnotthetree · 02/01/2023 23:10

PurplePinecone · 02/01/2023 20:13

This is the life with a breastfed baby afraid. I breast fed my daughter and found my daughter cluster fed from about 6pm until past midnight. It was hard work! If you plan to wean off breast by 6 months then things could start getting easier. My son was bottle fed and by 6 months he had a 7pm bedtime. He would have his bottle, fall asleep, then stay asleep until 6am. Bliss!

Not necessarily. I breastfed two babies and both were given a good post-bath feed at 6.30/7 and then slept for good stretch after that. With the first I used to wake him for a feed at 11.30 and then from 8 weeks or so he'd go through til 6.30 or 7. My daughter, I just waited til she woke which could be any time between 12 and 3. I had a really good routine of feeding and sleeping during the day though and I think THAT was the foundation of things being relatively easy in the evening and night. Needs were anticipated rather than responded t so most days, the children were satiated and not over-tired in the evening time. Breastfeeding does not have to be some awful martyrdom. It CAN be of course, and maybe I was lucky but I worry that the way so many describe Breastfeeding here puts people off even trying.

RoseAndGeranium · 02/01/2023 23:12

Kneepillowfan · 02/01/2023 20:54

RoseAndGeranium · Today 19:46
Oh my goodness, this sounds so hard. It’s completely normal to feel frustrated and resentful and burnt out by this, so let those feelings wash over you and don’t beat yourself up for them. A few thoughts:

it’s not forever! Everything is a phase, and at some point your baby will sleep through the evenings and you will have some adult time again. I know you know that, but it’s important to keep hearing it and saying it.
Two 30 minute naps is not a lot of sleep for a 5 month old at all, and I say that as the mother of two babies who have needed much less sleep than the books and sites recommend. Usually on these threads I’d advocate cutting down on naps, but here I do wonder if over tiredness may be a contributing factor. It’s very hard because some babies don’t show they’re tired and many (both of mine!) are hard to get to sleep even when they’re tired. Baby number 1 would only sleep in his pram after a certain point and baby number two will only sleep in the car, in the sling (only if I play pop music and bop along) or on the boob. What do you do to get your boy to sleep and how are you determine when he needs a nap? The fact that you say he needs a lot of entertainment in the day makes me wonder if you’re mistaking tiredness for boredom sometimes? I know I did this with first for a while.
once he’s asleep in the evening does he sleep well? Could you watch a movie with the volume fairly low on a laptop in bed?
Good luck and all my sympathy. You’re doing a wonderful job and you will get there.

I’m new to MN so I had to copy and paste so I could see and respond to your points sorry!

Thanks, you are right. I do need to hear this won’t be forever and there are really lovely bits of motherhood that I’m enjoying for the most part, it’s just evenings with my DH I miss.

I do think he’s overtired but he will not nap unless put in the pram and in between breastfeeding, making sure he gets good interaction and feeding myself, I don’t manage to get out more than twice to get him to sleep. Even the pram walks only get him to sleep for 30 mins. On the odd occasion it’s been 50 mins. He sometimes shows signs of tiredness but the minute I put him in his crib, cot or Moses basket he screams as if he knows what I’m trying to do and doesn’t want it haha. I’ve tried doing his bedtime routine for naps too. It just seems like nothing works!

Once we are in bed we end up watching separate things on our phones because it’s easier for me to feed DS lying on my side. Once he is asleep he sleeps for the whole night apart from waking every two hours for a feed, but goes back to sleep again.

Ok, I think getting more naps in might be the key to a better evening. He sounds, for what it’s worth, just like my son. He only ever slept for 30 minute stretches during the day too and screamed blue murder if I tried to put him in his cot. We also had a tough time with him in the evenings until I got really military about the timing of his naps. After that he fell asleep on his own every night at around 7 and reliably slept until midnight. I’d try working in another nap. Try to get him to sleep in the buggy 2.5-3 hrs after he wakes. If they works try roughly that waking interval before each nap. Experiment a bit. Getting out so many times can be tough (I remember some really grim walks in the rain with my son tucked up safely under his rain cover) so worth trying other things if you haven’t already. Will he sleep on the boob in a darkened bedroom during the day? I find that often works quite well for the lunchtime nap.

Original poster

Kneepillowfan · 02/01/2023 23:13

gertrudemortimer · 02/01/2023 20:42

Could you try and increase the morning nap? Does baby sleep in the pram? Perhaps go for a walk and leave baby in the pram in the house to keep sleeping and you can get some time to yourself. In the summer I'd leave my son in the pram in the back garden, once it got colder I'd mastered manoeuvring the pram up the steps and through the door as still as anything to keep him asleep.

Also where did you get a dp from that cooks and cleans when he gets home from work?

Baby does sleep in the pram and if I get home before he is awake I always leave him in the hallway of our house still asleep. Even with doing this he still only sleeps 30 mins at a time during the day! I already go for one long walk or 2 short walks each day. Don’t think I have time/energy for any more walking with the pram!

Haha DH does most of the housework and all the cooking. He is most certainly a catch so you can see why I would like to spend more evenings with him 😂

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Calphurnia88 · 02/01/2023 23:13

Merryoldgoat · 02/01/2023 23:06

Fine OP. I was just trying to help.

I liked being downstairs because I didn’t feel like life was passing me by downstairs.

I never made my children sleep in the dark or quiet so I could hoover round them and they’d sleep in broad daylight for naps and normal low light in the evening. I could therefore watch TV whilst they slept either on me or in a small cot I had for downstairs.

It was shitty and not perfect but I decided that setup suited me best.

My DS would sleep downstairs on me until we all went to bed around 10pm... Until he reached 4mo and became a lot more interested in the world. Suddenly everything (the TV, my partner, anything in the room basically) became much more interesting than going to sleep, so at this point we had no choice but to move the bedtime routine to the bedroom.

lochmaree · 02/01/2023 23:20

Pumpkinspicemadre · 02/01/2023 21:26

Sounds like he enjoys the comfort of his mama which is totally normal and age appropriate (again, doesn’t mean it’s not really hard too for you ❤️)

sounds like you’ve got a super power in BF and being able to soothe him back to sleep so quickly which is massively helpful at 4.16am 🙃😂

They just want the closeness (it’s a survival instinct at its core) and comfort feeding is massively important part of development.

it takes a village though and I hope you’re being supported by yours in both the days and nights

aw all of this ❤️

Original poster

Kneepillowfan · 02/01/2023 23:27

Merryoldgoat · 02/01/2023 23:06

Fine OP. I was just trying to help.

I liked being downstairs because I didn’t feel like life was passing me by downstairs.

I never made my children sleep in the dark or quiet so I could hoover round them and they’d sleep in broad daylight for naps and normal low light in the evening. I could therefore watch TV whilst they slept either on me or in a small cot I had for downstairs.

It was shitty and not perfect but I decided that setup suited me best.

Sorry if my response sounded blunt. That wasn’t intended. I do appreciate your suggestions.

Strangely enough he doesn’t need silence during the day and he does enjoy white noise both during the day and at night. White noise especially works if he is having trouble getting back to sleep after a night feed.

I guess because I lie down to feed him in my bed I feel like I’m already in bed now and it’s pointless going back downstairs once we’ve switched all the lights off. One day I might get myself back downstairs if I feel he will settle without me in the room.

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WombatStewForTea · 02/01/2023 23:27

Have you tried contact napping? I'd seriously give it ago. Feed to sleep, if he wakes after 30min try feeding again to see if he goes back off. Sleeping alone in a cot/pram is nowhere near as comfy as on mum so he may sleep better for naps.

Night wise it isn't clear - are you cosleeping? Or trying to get him back in his cot?

Babyboomtastic · 02/01/2023 23:30

Merryoldgoat · 02/01/2023 23:06

Fine OP. I was just trying to help.

I liked being downstairs because I didn’t feel like life was passing me by downstairs.

I never made my children sleep in the dark or quiet so I could hoover round them and they’d sleep in broad daylight for naps and normal low light in the evening. I could therefore watch TV whilst they slept either on me or in a small cot I had for downstairs.

It was shitty and not perfect but I decided that setup suited me best.

Babies vary so much though.

My first would settle downstairs until about 6m. She'd be asleep in her Moses basket and we'd just watch tv. We'd go out for meals to restaurants, and she'd fall asleep in the sling for the evening. We had rough nap times but she went with the flow.

My second was a light sleeper from birth. We tried hoovering and daylight etc and with a 2yo sibling it was rarely quiet. She NEEDED quiet to sleep and had to have routine. She only slept well at home, in her cot! I remember going to stay with relatives when she was 4w old, and I had to go to our bedroom to settle her - even at that age you couldn't have something on the tv. When she went in her own room she had white noise on and would still wake if someone turned on a tap in the kitchen below.

I tried to make her work around us, but all it means was a very grumpy overtired baby. So we went with what she needed and we were all happier for it.

Original poster

Kneepillowfan · 02/01/2023 23:32

RoseAndGeranium · 02/01/2023 23:12

Ok, I think getting more naps in might be the key to a better evening. He sounds, for what it’s worth, just like my son. He only ever slept for 30 minute stretches during the day too and screamed blue murder if I tried to put him in his cot. We also had a tough time with him in the evenings until I got really military about the timing of his naps. After that he fell asleep on his own every night at around 7 and reliably slept until midnight. I’d try working in another nap. Try to get him to sleep in the buggy 2.5-3 hrs after he wakes. If they works try roughly that waking interval before each nap. Experiment a bit. Getting out so many times can be tough (I remember some really grim walks in the rain with my son tucked up safely under his rain cover) so worth trying other things if you haven’t already. Will he sleep on the boob in a darkened bedroom during the day? I find that often works quite well for the lunchtime nap.

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It might work having daytime naps in the bedroom, but we don’t have very good blinds so it’s still really bright. Can’t afford new blinds or curtains at the moment. Stat mat pay is a joke which is what we are living on because DHs salary just about covers our bills, but I guess thats for another thread haha

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Merryoldgoat · 02/01/2023 23:34

@Babyboomtastic of course, I tried loads of things over the months but from very early I never kept it quiet and we had a busy house and it suited us and the babies - all loved being held but they slept on people or in a Moses basket in bright rooms with visitors from day one so it was just the norm.