Page 26 | There is no god

OldKingCole · 2023-01-02T19:02:17+00:00

Inspired by another thread … I was surprised by the level of atheism professed … as I always though I was in a tiny, tiny minority. would be interested to see the MN response. IABU - there is a god IANBU - there is no god

carbonarya · 04/01/2023 18:57

PrincessConstance · 04/01/2023 18:17

Your statement is not objectively true.
Do the math.
Cost it.
Reproduction between males and females is free. That's the caveat.
Again cost it.
The population would die out, and the cost of reproduction would be astronomical. My answers are factual objective assessments of the population shift. Even 10-15-20-30%.
We currently have a growing demographic of older people, there is zero way of paying for their care. It's the same problem.
According to the Bible, the original purpose was for males and females to populate the earth. With the caveat for couples to be married. Every other sexual relationship was classed as Fornication.

And for reference, I'm using the word homosexual because that's the BROAD term as used in the bible.

To answer another post about what Jesus said.
1 Corinthians 6:9-10.
'Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God'.

I'm not making a judgment about behavior, I'm telling you what the Bible says.

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WTF are you talking about?

The majority of people are not gay, that's not going to change. What would happen if everyone suddenly was has no bearing on anything.

CharitySchmarity · 04/01/2023 18:57

I don't believe in God.

I think there are more atheists than believers, but some of them don't think of themselves as atheists for one reason or another. Until quite recently I would have described myself as an agnostic because I couldn't make a very good logical case for there being no God, I just strongly suspected that there wasn't. Then I realised that I didn't have the same hesitation about declaring that I didn't believe in various other supernatural things, and now I think of myself as an atheist.

Thebestwaytoscareatory · 04/01/2023 19:16

I think the vast majority of people don't believe in God, even those who proclaim they do, not deep down anyway. This is especially true of those who follow a religion, it's the only way to explain why they're so happy to disregard any aspect of their religion that's inconvenient.

I mean if you genuinely believed in an all-seeing, all-knowing, all-powerful being, who was going to judge you when you die and decide the fate of your imortal soul, you wouldn't cherry pick which rules you followed, which you debated and changed, and which you ignored.

Abhannmor · 04/01/2023 19:21

PrincessConstance · 04/01/2023 18:18

Dp loves him. Very sensible, makes a very convincing argument based on sound objective reasoning.

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He is impressive. As is Keith Ward and the physicist John Polkinhorne. Atheists have strong arguments too but the popular new atheists don't make them very often , relying instead on abuse and ridicule.

Or sometimes descending into clever sounding absurdities.

BellePeppa · 04/01/2023 19:23

TarasHarp55 · 04/01/2023 17:41

It always amazes me how so many people don't believe. I've always had faith in God our creator. Our real home is in Heaven. I imagine people in heaven not believing in earth itms 😊

Can I ask why you believe?

neslop · 04/01/2023 19:26

ErrolTheDragon · 02/01/2023 19:19

The 2021 census had less than 50% identifying as Christian, 46%. The next largest group was 'no religion' at 37%.

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/culturalidentity/religion/bulletins/religionenglandandwales/census2021

A 'social attitudes' survey, which I think asks more detailed questions and so may elicit somewhat more considered responses had over 50% saying they had no religion

https://bsa.natcen.ac.uk/media/39293/1 bsa366_religion.pdf

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'No religion' doesn't necessarily equate to 'atheist'. Could be no organised religion but have a personal spirituality and/or are agnostic. Maybe agnostic is the most rational approach, given that the existence of a god can neither be proved nor disproved.

ErrolTheDragon · 04/01/2023 19:30

'No religion' doesn't necessarily equate to 'atheist'. Could be no organised religion but have a personal spirituality and/or are agnostic. Maybe agnostic is the most rational approach, given that the existence of a god can neither be proved nor disproved.

Indeed...and of course having a religion doesn't equate to 'theist', Buddhists for example.

Woodenheart33 · 04/01/2023 19:32

I don't believe in atheists.

BellePeppa · 04/01/2023 19:33

ErrolTheDragon · 04/01/2023 18:48

I'm so glad I no longer really care much what the Bible says.
There's a lot of very unpleasant stuff in it.

I do wonder what quite usually rational but Christian god/bible believers think of the command to kill your children if they speak out of turn? Is this something bible believers follow because it’s in the bible and if not, why not? I know there’s a heap of mysogynstic stuff about women so why do women like/believe in the bible. If it’s all the word of god then you have to abide by it all, not just the more palatable bit, don’t you?

ErrolTheDragon · 04/01/2023 19:36

Woodenheart33 · 04/01/2023 19:32

I don't believe in atheists.

And yet, we demonstrably exist.

Letitrainletitrainletitrain · 04/01/2023 19:39

ErrolTheDragon · 04/01/2023 19:36

And yet, we demonstrably exist.

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I mean we could all be in a simulation? What is existence after all?

pointythings · 04/01/2023 19:42

Letitrainletitrainletitrain · 04/01/2023 19:39

I mean we could all be in a simulation? What is existence after all?

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Can we leave the Matrix out of this?

Woodenheart33 · 04/01/2023 19:43

ErrolTheDragon · 04/01/2023 19:36

And yet, we demonstrably exist.

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Not quite, you think you do but you don't.

pointythings · 04/01/2023 19:44

Woodenheart33 · 04/01/2023 19:43

Not quite, you think you do but you don't.

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What now?

BarkAscending · 04/01/2023 19:45

Biscuitsneeded · 04/01/2023 18:23

@TarasHarp55 you're (perhaps wilfully) misunderstanding me. Where did I say that anyone who believes is thick? I didn't. What I said is that as a general rule, and this is fact, not opinion, the propensity to be atheist increases in accordance with the level of education, and the converse is also true. That doesn't mean there can't be exceptions. My inference from this fact is that being taught to think critically allows people to question what they have been told. I don't think that's very controversial or offensive either! Of course there will still be very clever, highly educated people who are the exceptions to the trend, but you only have to look at levels of education across the world and the grip that religion has where people are not educated to grasp my general point.

I don’t think what is happening supports your conclusion. As stated previously, I think what happened was that it became unfashionable for people whose identity was tied up with being educated to be religious. (After all, for the rest of history the educated WERE all religious). But other irrational, unevidenced beliefs of the modern age, such as gender ideology, have been born of academia and are promoted overwhelmingly by those with the highest education levels. And really, gender ideology does not survive the scrutiny of evidence based critical thinking.
So no, I really don’t think your hypothesis stands.

ErrolTheDragon · 04/01/2023 19:48

Not quite, you think you do but you don't.

So... do you exist, @Woodenheart33 ?

I think therefore I am... and also if I didn't exist I very much doubt my big toe would be hurting right now.

Woodenheart33 · 04/01/2023 19:52

pointythings · 04/01/2023 19:44

What now?

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People only think they are atheists but deep down they are not. Humans are hard wired for faith. Atheism is an intellectual affectation, nothing more. I myself am not religious at all but I don't quite possess the hubris to imagine or proclaim that I'm an atheist.

pointythings · 04/01/2023 19:55

Woodenheart33 · 04/01/2023 19:52

People only think they are atheists but deep down they are not. Humans are hard wired for faith. Atheism is an intellectual affectation, nothing more. I myself am not religious at all but I don't quite possess the hubris to imagine or proclaim that I'm an atheist.

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Well, that's not at all patronising or arrogant... At least I don't go round pretending to know what other people think, feel or believe. You don't live in my head (that isn't an invitation) so you know nothing about me.

I am an atheist. I believe that there is no god. I accept that this is a faith position only because I cannot prove matters one way or another. My belief gives me comfort. Maybe I'm hardwired for faith - in humanity.

AnorLondo · 04/01/2023 19:55

Woodenheart33 · 04/01/2023 19:52

People only think they are atheists but deep down they are not. Humans are hard wired for faith. Atheism is an intellectual affectation, nothing more. I myself am not religious at all but I don't quite possess the hubris to imagine or proclaim that I'm an atheist.

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Nope, I'm definitely an atheist.

pointythings · 04/01/2023 19:56

Also I believe in @ErrolTheDragon 's big toe.

Letitrainletitrainletitrain · 04/01/2023 19:56

pointythings · 04/01/2023 19:42

Can we leave the Matrix out of this?

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To be fair I didn't actually mean the matrix specifically

There is a school of thought out there that there it's 50-50 whether we are in a simulation or not which was what was in head

Parker231 · 04/01/2023 19:57

I looked up the definition of an atheist - a person who disbelieves or lacks belief in the existence of God or gods. "he is a committed atheist"

This is me.

ErrolTheDragon · 04/01/2023 20:00

People only think they are atheists but deep down they are not. Humans are hard wired for faith. Atheism is an intellectual affectation, nothing more. I myself am not religious at all but I don't quite possess the hubris to imagine or proclaim that I'm an atheist.

Complete and utter rubbish. Humans aren't 'hard wired for faith' - leastwise, not all of us. Why do you think it take more 'hubris' to be an atheist than a theist?

Philosophically, I am an agnostic - but on the balance of evidence and probabilities I do not believe in any gods so I'm also an atheist.

Woodenheart33 · 04/01/2023 20:03

ErrolTheDragon · 04/01/2023 20:00

People only think they are atheists but deep down they are not. Humans are hard wired for faith. Atheism is an intellectual affectation, nothing more. I myself am not religious at all but I don't quite possess the hubris to imagine or proclaim that I'm an atheist.

Complete and utter rubbish. Humans aren't 'hard wired for faith' - leastwise, not all of us. Why do you think it take more 'hubris' to be an atheist than a theist?

Philosophically, I am an agnostic - but on the balance of evidence and probabilities I do not believe in any gods so I'm also an atheist.

It's not rubbish it's quite literally the science that atheists are so very find of.

ErrolTheDragon · 04/01/2023 20:09

It's not rubbish it's quite literally the science that atheists are so very find of.

Presumably you've got a reference for this remarkable finding?