Page 14 | There is no god

OldKingCole · 2023-01-02T19:02:17+00:00

Inspired by another thread … I was surprised by the level of atheism professed … as I always though I was in a tiny, tiny minority. would be interested to see the MN response. IABU - there is a god IANBU - there is no god

Mammyloveswine · 03/01/2023 00:23

I believe there is a god..my mam has just died and my faith gives me great comfort.

Inspecto · 03/01/2023 00:24

HisNameWasMike · 02/01/2023 19:09

Of course there isn't a god. I'm amazed rational people still believe these tales from the dark ages but they do!

rational people

Isn’t that an oxymoron?

Are Humans Rational? How evolution shaped the human mind to only sometimes be logical.

Humans do not reason like computers.

Inspecto · 03/01/2023 00:33

Biscuitsneeded · 02/01/2023 19:12

Mumsnet attracts, typically, a more educated demographic who have been taught to think critically. So while the 88% atheist statistic I have just been shown does seem high, bear in mind that won't be typical of the population as a whole.

PS Of course there's no god. Or God. But fairy stories were very good for keeping the populace where you wanted them.

Educated doesn’t mean wise; wise doesn’t mean educated.

Have you spent enough time, thought and headspace to intelligently and informatively conclude there is no god? A day of rest was practised to allow for some time dedicated to faith and we have, on the whole, lost that and the wisdom that comes with it.

As for fairy tales: they have more uses than just keeping the populace in place (and I fairness, what other methods would you prefer to keep the populace in place if not fairy tales?),

"If you want your children to be intelligent, read them fairy tales. If you want them to be more intelligent, read them more fairy tales." - Albert Einstein

Einstein apparently valued imagination and fairy tales for developing intelligence.

Inspecto · 03/01/2023 00:34

ErrolTheDragon · 02/01/2023 19:11

YANBU.

A substantial proportion of the population doesn't believe in god, and even more aren't religious.

Does this correlate with losing the day of rest to spend time with faith? Could no longer having a day of rest for faith be causation?

Inspecto · 03/01/2023 00:47

ofwarren · 02/01/2023 19:25

"Zuckerman and his colleagues previously conducted a meta-analysis of 63 studies, which found “a reliable negative relation between intelligence and religiosity.” In other words, religious people tend to be less intelligent than non-religious people on average."

www.psypost.org/2019/11/meta-analysis-of-83-studies-produces-very-strong-evidence-for-a-negative-relationship-between-intelligence-and-religiosity-54897

I can believe that. But intelligence is not the only measurement in life. What about the relationship between religiosity and happiness?

Religious people are happier, study finds They also smoke and drink less alcohol

antipodeancanary · 03/01/2023 00:56

Odd isn't it? My religion is Catholic and I would probably tick that on a form, but I don't believe in God. The 'faith' is more cultural than religious. Jewish friends and Moslem friends don't believe in God either. The number of people who actually believe even within a religious group is much lower than both the number of people who attend services and loads lower than the number of people who would tick that denomination on a form.

XDownwiththissortofthingX · 03/01/2023 01:00

KimberleyClark · 02/01/2023 23:03

I would be interested to know how many purported atheists on here actually believe in ghosts/woo/the supernatural. Going by how popular woo threads are on here, I’m sure there are a few.

Obviously I can only speak for myself, but no, I do not believe in anything supernatural, paranormal, 'woo' as it is often described here, and I'd even extend that to the 'spiritual'.

Mental health is obviously a very real thing, and I accept that when people talk about 'spiritual wellbeing' they are often talking of something akin to 'mental wellbeing', and mental health obviously goes hand-in-hand with that. Whatever people feel the need to do to stay mentally well is clearly a matter entirely for them and I'd encourage them to do so, but for me personally, as someone who does not believe in any sort of afterlife, or that humans possess any such thing as a 'soul' or a 'spirit', I tend to view overt 'spirituality' as self-indulgent nonsense and every bit as ridiculous as investing in the paranormal, ghosts and so on.

You can not indulge something which simply does not exist, so it all strikes me as completely bizarre and I don't have any time for it, even though I would fight to defend anyone else's right to practice it. It's why I don't attend funerals, will not have one myself, I care not for sentimentality, have no interest in keeping photos of people, I have no ornaments in my home as I perceive them as pointless clutter, and so on. It's all utterly meaningless to me, so I just don't bother with it.

Goldenbear · 03/01/2023 01:03

I attended Anglican church services as a child and attended a private school that had prayer at lunchtimes, every assembly and services in the church and occasionally the cathedral at Easter and Christmas. I would say that I therefore have some understanding of the message which was certainly not believing the bible to be literal, it was allegorical and all the above was there to serve as the foundations of moral guidance.

HRTQueen · 03/01/2023 01:04

there is many different beliefs around there being a God

Christian belief differ from Islamic belief around god and again both differ from religions where there are a number if gods

religion and belief very complex you are meant to be tested by your beliefs

what does it matter what someone believes if it brings them peace of mind (and not causing harm) and I certainly do not judge peoples intelligence on their belief in a god or gods

thewinterwitch · 03/01/2023 01:06

"I no longer believed in the known God of the Bible, but rather in the mysterious God expressed in nature." Albert Einstein

"I believe in Spinoza's God, Who reveals Himself in the lawful harmony of the world, not in a God Who concerns Himself with the fate and the doings of mankind." Albert Einstein

"I want to know how God created this world. I'm not interested in this or that phenomenon, in the spectrum of this or that element. I want to know His thoughts, the rest are details." Albert Einstein

He has also said that the likelihood of the universe with its all its laws randomly throwing itself together was as likely as it would be to fling a dismantled Swiss watch into the air and for all its tiny parts to come together and form a working watch.

Inspecto · 03/01/2023 01:10

@FinallyHere ”And, another thing, it's a much finer thing to do the right thing because it's the right thing to do rather than to avoid being punished.”

Of course. But that’s not how humans work, unfortunately.

Dumbledore knew this too: Dark and difficult times lie ahead. Soon, we must all face the choice between what is right and what is easy.

Easy is always easier than doing what is right.

Notsurenotquiteright · 03/01/2023 01:11

No god.
I have friends who are deeply committed to god.
a recent I’ll health resulted in them asking me to pray.
I said I would keep them in my thoughts and trust medicine as I don’t believe in god.
everything turned out well due to amazing doctors.
but in there eyes it was gods doing,
i don’t even think if it had gone bad they would have lost faith they would see it as gods doing and part of the bigger picture.
I can’t subscribe to it- I think if there is a god and apparently he loves us all equally this means he loves the non believers so I’ve got nothing to worry about.
I’d rather not live my life serving a god that has never presented him/herself and who doesn’t intervene in the most horrific of situations.

i always Tick atheist on questionnaires

XDownwiththissortofthingX · 03/01/2023 01:13

@ofwarren

What neurodiversity does Dawkins have?

Honestly? I don't even know if he has a diagnosis, but it seems obvious to me as someone with an 'aspergers' diagnosis myself that he is as glaring a case as there is, and 'atheism' is as much his special interest as evolutionary biology is.

I know it usually meets with howls of protest when it's mentioned on MN, but it is absolutely the case that some ND people are curt, insensitive, don't really know when to stop, and lack an adequate filter. I can say this because I am guilty of it myself, and I see exactly the same thing in Dawkins.

The tenacity and self-righteousness with which he professes his atheism is absolutely in keeping with the way myself and countless other ND people will talk about their chosen special interest. Its impossible to get bored discussing it, and due to our inherent indignation at what we perceive as 'untruth' or 'falsehoods', we never tire of arguing our point or defending the 'cause', even to the point whereby we are prone to riling people up as that appears to us as someone falling into the trap of 'can't win the argument, so descend to temper tantrums'.

Again, I'm not going to claim with 100% certainty that he will have a diagnosis, but I'd happily stake my life on him being ND.

Inspecto · 03/01/2023 01:23

Lemonlettuce · 02/01/2023 20:52

I believe in God. I am a Muslim.

In the Islamic tradition there is a very famous saying where Muslims believe God says

‘I am in the opinion of my servant.’

Obviously those of you who identify as atheists will take issue with the word ‘servant’ but Muslims have traditionally interpreted this as basically saying if you don’t believe in God, then you won’t find a single proof for God. You’ll see all the religious arguments for the existence of God false, meaningless, silly, etc as this thread has shown.

Conversely if you do believe in God you’ll find the smallest most insignificant thing boosting your faith.

In short God reveals himself to us according to how we already think he is.

Not looking to start an argument here… just providing a non Christian view if anyone is interested.

‘I am in the opinion of my servant.’

That’s so poetic! I love it!

I think the sentiment makes a lot of sense. It’s like God has an ‘in crowd’ and those not in won’t understand what it is with God because they’re not part of his in crowd. Is that what you meant?

Inspecto · 03/01/2023 01:30

@Notsurenotquiteright ”No god. I have friends who are deeply committed to god.
a recent I’ll health resulted in them asking me to pray. I said I would keep them in my thoughts and trust medicine as I don’t believe in god. everything turned out well due to amazing doctors. but in there eyes it was gods doing,”

You speak as if you think medicine does not involve an oath before god. How else do you think medical ethics is governed?

Christian Hippocratic Oath

Blessed be God the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, be blessed for ever and ever. I do not lie.

I will not tarnish the science of medicine.

I will not give anyone poison, even if he asks me for it, nor will I suggest anyone to take it.

Likewise, I will not induce abortion in any woman with treatment from above or below.

I will teach the art to those who want to learn it, without hiding anything from them and without making them my servants.

According to my ability and judgement, I will only apply my treatments for the benefit of the sick. I will practice my art with purity and holiness.

In whatever house I enter, I shall enter to help the sick, and I shall refrain from any action, intentional or unintentional, that may cause harm or death, and from any erotic intercourse with servant or free, male or female.

I will keep silent about everything I see or hear, on the occasion of my internship (or even outside of it in my social relations), and I will consider these things as a sacred secret.

If I keep this oath and do not break it, may God help me in my life and in my art, and may I be honoured of men. If I remain faithful, may I be saved; but if I swear falsely, may the contrary befall me.

Peckhaminn · 03/01/2023 01:31

IANBU - Christian via birth. It believe n such thing. I have found religion not cause too many conflicts. Every war has been based in religion.

anon666 · 03/01/2023 01:32

Yanbu
There is no god. Obviously (to me).

I was brought up a strict Catholic yet it's completely self evident to me.

It took me till mid 20s to fully understand the web of delusion.

Inspecto · 03/01/2023 01:33

Peckhaminn · 03/01/2023 01:31

IANBU - Christian via birth. It believe n such thing. I have found religion not cause too many conflicts. Every war has been based in religion.

Or religion gets scapegoated?

According to the Encyclopedia of Wars, out of all 1,763 known/recorded historical conflicts, 121, or 6.87%, had religion as their primary cause.

Peckhaminn · 03/01/2023 01:35

I think majority know it's old folks tales. Religion was to control others. Still is. Sorry but with all the science around now, how anyone believes it is beside me. But we are still persecuted for being able to have an opinion. Why is it ok to believe in a religion and be accepted and to disagree you are judged?

Ponderingwindow · 03/01/2023 01:49

@charlied2020

that is what scares the living crap out of me about Christianity. Worship god = get into heaven. Be a good person, but don’t believe, and be judged.

it places an abusive narcissistic tyrant in charge of our fates

Inspecto · 03/01/2023 02:09

Ponderingwindow · 03/01/2023 01:49

@charlied2020

that is what scares the living crap out of me about Christianity. Worship god = get into heaven. Be a good person, but don’t believe, and be judged.

it places an abusive narcissistic tyrant in charge of our fates

I don’t think the formula for getting into heaven is just believing.

And what does “good person” even mean?

Do you really mean that everyone gets judged, whether they believe or not, and assessed if they’re worthy of heaven or not?

Mckmck · 03/01/2023 02:11

I do believe there is a God.

Agree with all you say though, there is something more.
Something we can't comprehend yet

PurpleSky300 · 03/01/2023 02:54

I believe in God for my own reasons but each to their own. I have never been religious or found any kind of religion that made sense to me so I do my own thing.

ofwarren · 03/01/2023 05:11

Inspecto · 03/01/2023 01:30

@Notsurenotquiteright ”No god. I have friends who are deeply committed to god.
a recent I’ll health resulted in them asking me to pray. I said I would keep them in my thoughts and trust medicine as I don’t believe in god. everything turned out well due to amazing doctors. but in there eyes it was gods doing,”

You speak as if you think medicine does not involve an oath before god. How else do you think medical ethics is governed?

Christian Hippocratic Oath

Blessed be God the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, be blessed for ever and ever. I do not lie.

I will not tarnish the science of medicine.

I will not give anyone poison, even if he asks me for it, nor will I suggest anyone to take it.

Likewise, I will not induce abortion in any woman with treatment from above or below.

I will teach the art to those who want to learn it, without hiding anything from them and without making them my servants.

According to my ability and judgement, I will only apply my treatments for the benefit of the sick. I will practice my art with purity and holiness.

In whatever house I enter, I shall enter to help the sick, and I shall refrain from any action, intentional or unintentional, that may cause harm or death, and from any erotic intercourse with servant or free, male or female.

I will keep silent about everything I see or hear, on the occasion of my internship (or even outside of it in my social relations), and I will consider these things as a sacred secret.

If I keep this oath and do not break it, may God help me in my life and in my art, and may I be honoured of men. If I remain faithful, may I be saved; but if I swear falsely, may the contrary befall me.

There are loads of versions of the Hippocratic Oath. Exeters for example, is secular
www.exeter.ac.uk/students/graduation/bmbs/hippocraticoath/

Bristol don't do the oath at all, it's called the Bristol Promise

Rickandmortified100 · 03/01/2023 05:40

I believe and know with every fibre of my being that there is a God. Once you have experienced God there is not denying it and everything changes. But a lot of people are so closed off to God these days. It’s frankly uncool and unpopular to be a Christian (or any religion to be honest). People are almost embarrassed to even think about God. And God doesn’t force or bully us into having a relationship with Him so a lot of people won’t ever find Him unless they seek Him. I wish more people would search for God. Everyone deserves to have a relationship with Him. The most beautiful and life-changing relationship I’ve ever had, from which all of my other wonderful relationships (husband, children, friends) have come. I’m so grateful to know God and I hope that others find Him too 💜