Tory voters are hypocrites to complain about the state of the NHS

[Kendodd]

Wtf did they think they were voting for? The Tories have NEVER left the NHS in a better state when they left office than it was in when they came to power.

inews.co.uk/news/politics/tory-voters-believe-government-failed-nhs-education-austerity-poll-suggests-2058898

www.schengenvisainfo.com/europe-health-insurance/

Remind me which party was it that had PFI,hospitals built🤔

One thing that seems to be prevalent in other models is nominal pay - do pp think the electorate would vote for a party charging for GPs / hospital visits etc?

I can’t think of a bigger, more racist institution than the EU. Just google EU MPs or EU comission members, and look at the pictures. Or be a Kenyan tomato farmer and try to sell your goods to an EU country without being hit with a large tariffs that the white Spanish tomato farmers don’t have to pay.

midgetastic - the price of butter has very little relevance to real funding levels in the NHS.

Imagine a service that aims to deliver to the users rather than the owners.

The NHS is fundamentally flawed because more is taken out of it than is put into it. You can also thank immigration, benefit claimants who don't pay national insurance and people who go the GP for a headache for that.

@SerendipityJane so is it a mix of insurance and state? Do you pay to see your GP?

www.theguardian.com/society/2021/aug/04/nhs-drops-from-first-to-fourth-among-rich-countries-healthcare-systems

The uk is falling down compared to other countries but still does very well

The reason for the fall is given as it is extremely lean compared to other systems meaning that when a event such as covid happens it had no slack

Most European countries have some sort of insurance model. I know many people are uncomfortable with this as a model and I think there will need to be legal safeguards put in place to prevent some of the most polarising things about the US system. But I simply can't see another way to make it work.

The NHS is now in such a parlous state it is actively damaging health at a population level. The complete vacuum of GP care, community care and chronic healthcare for the day to day population is shoring up massive problems for later generations. We need to deal with this sharpish if we don't want to have a whole generation which has lacked basic oversight of its health.

Obviously the most visibly scary thing is the acute care problem: ambulances backed up for hours and hours outside hospitals. This is shocking but its not the scariest thing for me. The scariest thing is that I now know that getting to see a GP is so difficult and burdensome that it requires me to essentially take at least one full day off work to manage the endless queuing and sitting on indefinite hold. I simply can't justify doing this every time I have a minor malaise so I just don't. So if I did require screening for a condition which could turn out to be early stage cancer I just wouldn't know because it would be impossible for this to be investigated.

The fact that my daughter will grow up in an environment where booking an appointment to see a GP is an impossible dream and one she may have to trade off against the risk of losing her job is something that makes me incredibly angry and scared.

I can’t think of a bigger, more racist institution than the EU. <snip useless part of post> . Or be a Kenyan tomato farmer and try to sell your goods to an EU country without being hit with a large tariffs that the white Spanish tomato farmers don’t have to pay.

Isn't that how trading blocs work ?

If kier starmer says again “the government haven’t done enough” without providing an alternative, I will scream. There was never a better time for labour to come out as a stronger, better alternative, and yet they have him - a wet lettuce leaf, in charge of the party. What a shame.

I remember it well, definitely best time economically for my family. In the 12 years they were in government they introduced the minimum wage, created Surestart, made class sizes smaller, had the shortest NHS waiting lists for 40 years minimum wage, Sure Start, smaller class sizes, huge investment in schools, the shortest hospital waiting lists for 40 years, 11 years of uninterrupted economic growth, help achieved peace in Northern Ireland, undertook devolution. They also did some terrible things the Iraq war being number one, and selling off the gold. For the war I struggled to vote for them again. But on a selfish level they made my day to day life far far better. My wage literally doubled over night.

Oh, OP, you're in for a massive shock when/if Labour get in and the NHS remains in the same or even worse state than it is now.

The NHS has been in need of major reform for years. It's not under-funded, the funds are poorly managed. The biggest problem is no one wants to have the conversation that needs to be had. We treat the NHS and its workers (don't get me wrong-the workers work very hard and should absolutely be praised) as if it is beyond reproach and this sainted institution that cannot be criticised.

Instead, we just blame the government and say they're the ones destroying it by not funding it enough. You can throw all the money you want at it-but if the system is broken and in need of reform, until people admit that, it's not going to massively help. I think some study came out that showed that we spend per annum 44% (it was in the region of 40% so not sure of exact figure) of our GDP on the NHS.

This is more than other European countries with similar system to ours that actually have a much better, more efficient service with much better health outcomes for their patients.

This is not a problem of funding. This is a problem of mismanagement of funds, and the fact that the NHS has not evolved with a changing and ever-evolving society. And don't blame Brexit-the problems existed long before that came into being. And we've been hearing about the NHS being in crisis every winter since the 90s-when guess who was in power? Labour.

No we have a shit system - which is why almost nowhere else in the world uses it. I didn't include all the nuance (and I have plenty) but believe me, a minority government of any colour is bad - it's not just because I don't like this government.

Funny isnt it, how armchair experts describe the NHS as inefficient and wasteful. And yet the actual experts , like the WHO describe the NHS as one of the worlds most efficient and best value for money systems.

Posters who are saying we can't afford the NHS are really saying we can't afford healthcare for all. At least one poster has been honest enough to say she's been blessed with good health and doesn't want to pay for sick people. Although my fil had good health all his life, and private health insurance, private GP, until he got old, then nobody would insure him anymore.

www.independent.co.uk/news/health/nhs-rank-rating-world-top-first-b1897008.html

healthcare-digital.com/hospitals/most-efficient-health-systems

Let's examine treating nurses badly

We overwork them by not employing enough ? Because we underpay and overwork them? And we even make them
Pay for all their own training ?

That is all cash

Looks at payslip

I believe I do. Additionally, I'd happily whack a £50 deposit on GPs appointments to monetise the 10-20% DNAs. (and maybe make it £100 for specialist appointments). Or to put it another way, there hasn't been a single appointment I've been to (including during lockdown) where someone hasn't just not turned up. But that's another argument for another thread.

I try not to be ill myself. Just seem to hand around with a lot of people who are.

They need to get the basics right, starting with going digital
NHS are the only organisation I know still posting letters for appointments etc, why not use emails?
Different IT systems that don't work together, so when I went to A&E less than a mile from my GP they have none of my details, so I had to tell them everything from scratch.

That’s because it’s free at the point of use! You can’t seriously believe that the NHS is a good system?! This is why the NHS will never change because people still think it’s the ‘envy of the world’. Absolutely blinkered.

I worked for the NH S during the Labour years ,yes they built lots of shiny new buildings ,and created lots of fancy sounding titles ,actual patient care was no better though ime.snd I was redeployed twice in 2005 due to.cuts .

@SerendipityJane I agree me too.

Incorrect. You have been misinformed or are lying.

My problem with the Nhs started under Blair/Brown.

Must be labours fault.

Or it could be, that rather than politicising the problem, we could just focus on the problem.

The NHS reverence is frustrating. I wouldn’t actually change much but focus on social care and population health.

I don’t think Labour will be this wonderful thing that fixes it, and may make things worse, and I don’t welcome just ploughing in money regardless. Plus no PFI to defer cost this time.

But on the upside we’ll see what Labour are like in this climate not harking back to 90s when globally we were in a different place.