Tory voters are hypocrites to complain about the state of the NHS

[Kendodd]

Wtf did they think they were voting for? The Tories have NEVER left the NHS in a better state when they left office than it was in when they came to power.

inews.co.uk/news/politics/tory-voters-believe-government-failed-nhs-education-austerity-poll-suggests-2058898

The NHS is not a good system at all, even people that work for the NHS will agree to that. It is not at all run like it would be if it were an elite private sector company. There is no incentive for the people who work there to change things because they get paid anyway, if it were a private company with competition it would have to constantly innovate and improve in order to compete with rival firms. You wouldn't have ridiculous things like separate incompatible IT systems in different areas or departments, Admin staff still manually typing out letters, and the like. It's 2023, not 1973.

The NHS needs total reform it doesn't matter how much money you pour into it unless it's reformed from grass roots level upwards then nothing will change ,
Whoever is in power needs to acknowledge this.

Quite a few of the Tory voters I know have private health insurance. Or pay for scans, etc if they need to. Those whose health details I don't know about tend to appear to me to be wealthy enough to cover private health insurance if the country goes that way.
I think they vote Tory for reasons other than the NHS.
I think there are a myriad of reasons for not voting Tory but for those with money and means, Labour might not be appealing either.

Can Labour in Wales/SNP administrations stop English people coming to their countries, esp in Wales to retire?

Can they reinstate nurse bursaries, take on capital rebuilds of hospitals? Wales cannot raise taxes.

They aren't independent countries in control of their own destinies, they rely very heavily on the Westminster Govt.... very weird that seemingly intelligent people don't or wont see this.

The NHS is in a far worse state than any other European country, 300 to 500 a week dying needlessly, thats more civilian deaths than Putin causes in Ukraine per week!!! 50k nurse vacancies, 150k social care vacancies, they took away nurse bursaries, any Tories think that was a good idea? gave us brexit, which took away so many EU healthworkers, 7.2m waiting for treatment.
Head of NHS says Austerity has caused much of this disaster - who gave us that for 10 years? 5 years more than we needed.

This is after 13 years of the Tories but instead of accepting any of this, we get the pathetic "..but labour in Wales..."

Abhannmor - learn what 'disenfranchised' means before trying to use it in a sentence.

helford - most racists at least try to hide it nowadays.

It’s funny how Labour and Wales is dismissed. I guess people really do think Labour will be great.

Hope they’re right. Better than the opposite and we end up with Wales level of education and health.

It is a depressing thought. So let’s hope they are right on this and we bound to glory under Starmer.

Are you suggesting that we should have accepted unlimited immigration from any country in the world, whilst not being reciprocated for UK workers?
A black French citizen was equally able to work in the UK as a white one.

We had a FOM agreement with the EU, it worked both ways, it was not racist.

I agree about Ukraine. I had a Ukrainian staying with me and have got to know a lot of Ukrainians through her. They go home to a FUCKING WAR ZONE for medical and dental treatment they can't get here.

Scotland and Wales are not sovereign independent countries, its not a difficult concept to get your head around, there is only so much they can do.

Good health is the most important thing an individual can have and that means access to GPs and Hospitals, after 12 years of the Tories, they have utterly failed.

I don't know why most of your posts bang on about Labour with a sarcastic "they'll be great etc etc" you don't mean it and its pretty clear you'd love Labour to fuck up, its tiresome.

Failing to understand why trusts hire Diversity managers on a salary that could be actually pay for 2 nurses who are desperately needed?

I think the problem is we are a country run on short term priorities. Governments are in for 5 years or so, and want results in that time. Difficult, long term problems don’t get addressed.

We need a long term vision for key areas, such as the NHS, which successive short term governments need to demonstrate progress towards. The whole structure of government needs to be looked at rather than just picking between labour and Tory’s.

Don’t read or reply to me then. I don’t care. I’m not interested in what you have to say, hopefully vice versa and you’ll reply to others.

And yes I do hope Labour voters are right as many think they will fix all the problems. Of course I do even if I don’t think they won’t be as good as people are envisaging. If they are wrong we are in bigger trouble than now. It’s fairly simple to get.

Anyway over and out with quotes as not getting into a tiresome round with you again.

Quite a few of the labour voters I know don't pay tax and don't seem to mind about taxes going up...

helford - no, I'm pointing out the racism of people who were comfortable with unrestricted migration from majority-White countries but wanted controls on migration from majority-Black countries. Let me guess - it's not racist if you do it?

A lot of issues are due to a failure in workforce planning (as repeatedly highlighted for many years by Jeremy Hunt whilst chair of Health Select Committee). 133,000 vacant NHS positions - exacerbated by failure to retain existing experienced employees.

Long term failures to tackle issues with social care (currently 12,000 in hospital fit to be discharged but can't be because of shortages in social care) and preventive care.
Lack of investment in infrastructure and maintenance.

Last January, the average response time for a category two ambulance call, so that’s a stroke and heart attack, was about 20 minutes. Over December, it’s been over an hour and a half and over a couple of days it’s been over two and a half hours,” he said.
The estimate of 300 to 500 deaths a week being linked to emergency care delays is based on official excess death figures, which have varied from about 1,700 a week in mid-October to about 900 in mid-November for England. The RCEM believes that between a quarter and a third of these “extra” deaths are likely to be due to problems with emergency care.
(From the Times today).

None of this will have come as a surprise to the Government.

But all european countries have a 4 or 5 year electoral cycle, yet manage far better across not only health but public services generally.
Is it because they have PR and hence have to have more compromise and less ideology in their politics .... so can have a more longer term discussion.

We are obviously doing something very different here in the UK.

135k vacancies in the NHS.

Yes some posters will dance with glee if they think Labour will fail... its pretty obvious.

If Labour fail it’s not going to be nice

I can’t see why anyone would want that to happen. Unless they have somewhere else to go of course…

I will admit, i have never seen EU membership as racist, FOM was one aspect of being in the bloc and it was reciprocated and not based on the colour of ones skin, so i don't really see how you can say "racist"

Do you think Australia/NZ is racist because they allow each others mainly white residents to move freely?

You mean If Labour fail to clean up 13 years of Tory failure?

When the NHS was set up rhe UK wasn't as overpopulated people didn't live as long/and or have as many co-morbidities so the strains on the service were different. The systemic underfunding, running into the ground, and the PPE and other carpetbagging and cronyism are primarily due to the last 12 (almost 13 now) years of Tory government. The lib dems can bleat all they like, and although I'd vote for them if they were the best local option to get the Tories out that doesn't change the fact that they're untrustworthy turncoats and were Tory enablers 13 years ago.

I think many of those who voted and keep voting Tory cannot see or don't care about what they are condoning with their votes. And no, I don't think Labour are perfect. But until we have PR like much of the rest of the civilised world, nothing will change in the Halls of the Squabbling Toddlers.

I'd personally like to see those Tory voters (many of whom are getting on a bit now in years and experiencing those comorbidities and long term ailments for themselves) put their hands in their metaphorical pockets, their money where their mouth is, and pay for private healthcare.

Many of them would get a long overdue shock to discover just how unattractive their conditions and demographics were to health insurance companies and how expensive they are to treat.

And anyone who thinks that isn't where we're heading just isn't paying attention.

That's interesting. So we'd probably have a better standard of politics here if no seats were safe.

helford - you think it's not racist to say Jamaicans aren't allowed into a club because some Jamaicans aren't black? And I'm not saying the EU is racist - I'm saying that some Remainers were very clever in hiding their racism under the mantle of 'progressive' beliefs.

I guess you can put it that way if it helps.

I’m more concerned about it getting worse. I love the U.K. and dc do too, so would be sad to see decline, not be happy about that at all. I’ll see how it goes with Labour first - like I say maybe Labour supporters are right, they’ll be great - not sarcasm, I have doubts but will wait to assess before deciding.

Notonthestairs - so your chart shows NHS funding not only rising in real terms under the post-coalition Conservative governments but rising at accelerating rates. Correct?