Tory voters are hypocrites to complain about the state of the NHS

[Kendodd]

Wtf did they think they were voting for? The Tories have NEVER left the NHS in a better state when they left office than it was in when they came to power.

inews.co.uk/news/politics/tory-voters-believe-government-failed-nhs-education-austerity-poll-suggests-2058898

YANBU we’ll have to remember to thank them when we’re all paying the Tories’ rich mates running healthcare for profit and the service gets even worse.

At the risk of sounding provocative, I am desperate for someone to shout ‘the emperor is naked’ where the NHS is concerned. It is not working and I will be delighted when proper discussions about what can replace it take place.

FFS I'm 65 and have been hearing the propaganda "Tories are planning to privatise the NHS" for all my voting life.

They never have. Never will. If any Tory leader had the balls to do it Thatcher would have - and didn't.

It shouldn't be privatised of course, BUT it does need a radical reshape, possibly along European lines with copay.

It certainly cannot continue in its current form, and there isn't any amount of money that would fix it. Throwing money at it has been done repeatedly and nothing improves long term.

Do you think it would be any better under labour? Because it won't. Or any party for that matter. All career politicians are self-serving - there are very few exceptions.

Besides, you'd be fool to think all the issues are purely down to the government. The level of incompetence, miss-management and waste within the NHS is truly breathtaking. A huge number of my nursing friends have been driven from their jobs by a toxic bullying work culture that has been allowed to thrive by employing too many useless managers. Why are we not holding the senior NHS leadership responsible for some of this mess?

Oh yes, easier to blame the tory voters...

WatchoRulo - one of the main points of PR is increasing representation of parties with less support. Or do you think the system should be rigged so in every election so only the parties you approve of pass the threshold?

The problem with some people is that they can't accept that policies have disadvantages as well as advantages so they end up denying that the disadvantages exist. It's a very simple-minded way of thinking about politics.

The NHS is appallingly badly run. Throwing money at a failing organisation is not going to improve anything. People always bleat on about funding but it’s fairly averagely funded compared to other European countries but with far worse outcomes and that’s because it’s a shambles. The only thing the NHS needs is reform along European lines but weirdly some people object to that so the NHS continues to collapse. The U.K. has the health service it deserves.

Clear majority so far ...

It's underfunded compared to almost every European county

I think it's reform among American lines that most people want to avoid

Exactly.
The model has been failing for at least 30 years, it was failing all the time I was a nurse, regardless of what government was in charge.

Yep. Following a European model would be the best thing. However all some people will grasp is NHS or American healthcare. It's like the don't realise there are many other countries out there with different models. In any other company, if the model wasn't working, it would be changed.

Which is understandable, but it’s incredibly thick to think it is NHS or America.

To be honest, at the moment I want a system that works, even if I have to pay through the nose for it.

I don't. I would rather we were allowed to opt out of it and pay 20% less income tax (and percentage of everyone'[s income tax/NI bill that goes on the NHS) or that we changed it to a paid service. So I am not hypocrite over this at all. I also have only had to use it twice in 15 years which I call in each case the £100,000 7 minute appointments!

Fair enough! Unfortunately, PR has its own drawbacks such as party politics taking precedence over local constituency interests (not saying that doesn't happen now though).

Following a European model would be the best thing

Not in English ideology. Certainly not the one people voted for.

Insurance schemes -including national insurance- work by sharing risk

As soon as you allow lucky healthy people to opt out and pay much less then the unlucky , the disabled for example will have to pay much more

That's an individualistic society that I don't want to be part of

And it tends to favor the few

The Tories fought tooth and nail to prevent the creation of the NHS in 1948. During the years of the Post War Consensus they grudgingly accepted it.

But since 1979 they've tried their damnedest to wreck it or sell it off. They don't usually say it out loud though - unlike Farage.

Do Tory voters actually moan about the service though? Perhaps as a prelude to calling for its abolition. Same tactics they used with British Rail. The railways are world beating now of course 😂

I have tried to understand the pay differences with other models but it’s hard to compare exactly to get full picture wrt who would pay more / less

But any system that links health outcomes to amount will really shift cost as generally people use healthcare less up income scale.

midgetastic - national insurance is just another form of taxation. NHS funding comes from the general pot of government funds.

Abhannmor - NHS funding at record levels but ... shhhh .... that doesn't fit the preferred narrative.

Funding at its highest ever levels

So is the price of butter

And the population is getting less healthy

Yes indeed but the model that people want to change is currently a national insurance model

We pay in according to income

The reverse is true @Alltheprettyseahorses . Because there are no safe seats here in Ireland our TDs (MPs) are quite obsessed with local issues. This can sometimes be annoying too. But they can't take us for granted.

No single party has won an overall majority since 1977 here. Thank heavens.

Can someone please explain the European model

There are several !