Tory voters are hypocrites to complain about the state of the NHS

[Kendodd]

Wtf did they think they were voting for? The Tories have NEVER left the NHS in a better state when they left office than it was in when they came to power.

inews.co.uk/news/politics/tory-voters-believe-government-failed-nhs-education-austerity-poll-suggests-2058898

My view on Albanians is that every person who takes illegal drugs is indirectly encouraging some of them to make crossings in small boats etc, if it is the case that Albanian gangs control much of the illegal drugs trade in the UK.

You also might find it interesting that under Labour they closed all A n E services near me causing queuing ambulances which are now normal. Then gloated about being proud of what they did. They also spent hundreds of thousands of the extra NI on entertainment systems instead of staffing.

The money wasted on IT systems that either don't work or are ripped out and replaced, let alone don't talk to each other is genuinely obscene.

Where were A&E services closed, let alone gloated about? There were no ambulance queues, there was 98% performance against the four hour target for A&E. You just can’t be arsed to read even the summary of that report, too difficult I suppose.

In Lancashire. Yes there were queues it is well documented. If you close all the other services and do not increase the only one left within an hour's travel then yes there will be issues and there has been since that happened. And yes they said they were proud of closing the services on the day these closed.

98% seen in A n E? Man we didn't get through the door in 4 hours let alone be seen! ha ha ha!

pucelleauxblanchesmains - "And it's amusing because you clearly believe anyone who doesn't agree with you is a liberal you'll really be wounding with spurious accusations of racism rather than an actual social conservative." No, you're just inventing things because you're too stupid to engage with the issues.

responded to an angry Labour voter
No you responded to me. I was just lamenting the fact that Corbyn's always dragged up - he isn't in charge, he didn't get elected PM and he's not even a Labour MP any longer. Time to shut up about him.

How much money would we have to give to the NHS for it to run properly with no problems and all problems being met?

Until it is completely reformed and restructured, it doesn't matter how much money is put in, it will never be enough.

Thanks @Blossomtoes for the link... I read up to p19 where the conclusion came to the verdict that spending had reached the European average but that few solid productivity gains were achieved with the extra spending. There was no resounding conviction that the NHS was significantly better.

It certainly is not as efficient on the estate maintenance and procurement front as it could be. Our small business deals with most of the hospitals between Lands End and Somerset, as well as two in London. Each one has its individual purchasing protocol and qualification system for contractors so submitting tenders means we have to jump through hoops for every single project. We hold ISO9001 which is audited annually: surely it would be fairly straightforward to make it NHS policy that potential contractors have to have an accreditation in place but that once evidence of compliance/competence is proved then any/every hospital should be able to use that contractor without needing more than the current certificate?

The issue is far more basic than individual experiences.

This Tory government is incompetent. Since 2019, the decisions they have made have actually restricted business and trade, and downgraded public finances. Things like immigration has had nada all done in 13 years. It has gone up, not down. Make of that what you will!

I don't expect the Conservatives to support the NHS as being free at the point of use. They tolerate it but have made the most of introducing market style reforms which basically incomplete because no private company would want to take on the workforce as it is. At the same time the demand goes up every year. That is a mix of incompetence by the Government, the management and greed on the part of Tory donors.

If you look at the polls then you can see the Conservatives have ended the year 25 points down behind Labour. Even with very severe Union action. This narrative that Labour are incompetent due to 2008 matters is not sticking. Instead the Conservatives are considered to be so. People have short memories.

Cheap kitchen fitters, I wish! Have you tried to get any kind of tradesperson in the last ten years? Even before Brexit it was dire. I wanted an extension done a few years ago, I couldn't even find anyone to give me a quote, I had to abandon it.

NHS waiting lists

Red is under Labour
Blue is unde Conservative

Yep and you seemed to be raging at someone else.

Trouble is when you get ops which say people who voted for Tories last time are whatever… then whoever they were up against was the alternative. And the alternative was bad. Even posters on here who really seem to really not want Tories couldn’t bring themselves to vote for Labour last time.

You can’t dismiss the failings as a factor in previous elections.

Now if you’re not talking past elections but future GEs then fine he’s out of the picture now. As I said even Starmer wants to distance himself, which is one decent decision.

too many reallys.. got distracted

What you talking about, there were loads of alternatives. The best Labour could hope for in 2019 was a hung parliament and coalition government. You could have voted for any of the other parties, you could have stayed at home and not bothered. You're acting like you had no choice but to vote Tory.

And for what it's worth, I think a Labour/coalition government, even under Corbyn, (who I thought was terrible) would have been better than the complete and utter shitshow the Tories have been. They've been so damaging for the country youd think they were working for Putin.

Oh I don’t care I’m not defending my choice and have zero intention to.

I do think Labour supporters are woeful at seeing where they failed last time though.

The leader didn’t connect with the electorate and that’s on them. If you can’t win people over the fault lies with you not the electorate.

You missed this on p6 then @XingMing

Conclusion
Overall, in our view, the results of this audit are very positive. The ambition for the NHS has been appropriately high. There has been unprecedented investment. There have been significant improvements in most areas that the Government has focused policies on. Has there been a ‘step-change’ in NHS performance? If step-change means a significant shift of gear, with more and better services, then yes there has.

I didn't miss that paragraph, but I read on to the end of the whole summarising section. And the conclusion there was that there had been significant gains in coronary and cancer care, and some encouraging signs in mental health services but that the unprecedented investment wasn't translating into more procedures completed and better patient outcomes -- although it did acknowledge the need to measure outcomes over a longer term. Is the study regularly repeated @Blossomtoes , or was it a one-off?

The progress hasn't been maintained, and despite the FT article's allegations, if you look at the charts the slide in NHS/public sector performance really plummets post-Brexit and Covid. Part of that is the increasing senescent population, which should have been obvious to actuaries and demographers and planned for accordingly, and all the governments after the 2010 Coalition are equally to blame. However, the Coalition's austerity measures were trying to rebuild financial health after the 2008 financial crisis, at a time when Portugal, Ireland, Greece and Spain were rocking EU cohesion and threatening the Euro.

The Tories have already lost the next GE, so we have to hope that Sir Keir and his team are supremely competent and feeling brave enough to wrestle with the sacred cow.

Here is a personal account

For those who don't fully understand what is up with the NHS, here is a thread for you that might help.

I'm a consultant physician working as a doctor in the NHS in Yorkshire and Wales for 32 years now. I have experienced the NHS at its best (2008) and its worst (2022).

twitter.com/peteneville65/status/1609907691912298497?t=Y7gFhVL0DR-RlXkDXvcw0Q&s=19

Finally, don't be fooled by the comments about cost. The NHS needs more. If it doesn't get it, YOU will end up paying it somehow. Either through a new state insurance scheme. Or private insurance. Remember the UK spends 9% of GDP on healthcare. The USA spends about 15%.

It was a one off review. I have to disagree about more procedures being completed otherwise waiting times wouldn’t have reduced so dramatically. I also disagree with the reasons you suggest for austerity, it was purely ideological as far as I can make out.

A very insightful Twitter thread on the state of the NHS…..⬇️⬇️

twitter.com/peteneville65/status/1609907691912298497?s=46&t=HEsWZhkGMtjT8ifVlldjvQ

Thank you for that Twitter thread.

@Plbrookes No, I am not stupid. You started this off with "were you one of the racist Remainers who were happy for unlimited migration from majority-White European countries but wanted controls on migration from majority-Black countries?".
I merely said that there's nothing wrong with preferring EU immigration and I'm sick of people, who usually pass themselves off as conservatives (maybe you don't!), doing the tedious anti-white shtick.
I didn't tell you how I voted in that referendum, what my preferred immigration policy would be (I dare say tighter than yours if you actually want plenty of non EU immigration rather than using imaginary black immigrants as a rhetorical cudgel), and you made a load of embarrassing assumptions because you thought you could get your little dig in. And you didn't actually address the hideous racism of the Scandinavians not being allowed in Mercosur or ECOWAS, unless it's only white people you think shouldn't be allowed to form trade blocs.

Anyway, aside from the thick "waaa waaa Europeans existing is racist" poster, I don't see what the future for the NHS is because this isn't working, but it's also so comprehensively screwed up I don't think money alone can fix it.
"An insurance based system" can mean so many things that I don't even think all the people on this thread are talking about the same sort of system as each other. A French or German style system would be what I'd lean towards as an option but in any case there needs to be some recognition that there are people for whom even small co payments would be huge and who wouldn't be able to pay for their own insurance.