Tory voters are hypocrites to complain about the state of the NHS

[Kendodd]

Wtf did they think they were voting for? The Tories have NEVER left the NHS in a better state when they left office than it was in when they came to power.

inews.co.uk/news/politics/tory-voters-believe-government-failed-nhs-education-austerity-poll-suggests-2058898

Wasn’t he the last Labour leader up for election. I mean he was bad so I get wanting to forget it but still.. the anger is misplaced

If the op and others think people should have not voted Tory, or let them win then it’s Labour that could have beaten them. Yet they lost by a long shot so look to the leader then…

That's not entirely accurate. Westminster still pulls the strings and controls the finances. So easy to ignore these facts.

And take a long look at how the NHS was performing and was regarded when Labour left office. l

Don't forget austerity.

luckylavender - The Scottish government can change income tax rates and thresholds to increase funding for their NHS. Sorry the truth is inconvenient for you.

And this thread demonstrates why the collapse of the NHS will continue. There are so many people who worship it, just think it needs a Labour government and more money being flung at it and all will be ok.

Boring on about privatisation and getting angry that people don’t ‘support’ the NHS. People in other countries don’t support their health system, they just assume it will work which it does. It needs complete reform. Nothing else will save it, but carry on sticking your heads in the sand.

YANBU OP. But also I would add if you are worried about the current state of the NHS, please wear a mask. We need to reduce spread of infections urgently and that's something we can all do to help straightaway. Of course we need investment and structural change for both health care and social care and we won't be getting any of that in a positive direction with the Conservatives in charge. But we can look out for each other and the NHS right now.

"14% fewer outpatient appointments
14% fewer emergency admissions
11% fewer elective admissions
10% fewer ‘treatment from waiting lists’"

I'd suggest this overlooks a few issues (some of which are discussed in The IFS report) -

Ongoing staff shortages - 47,000 vacant nursing positions (42,000 in 2019), 133,000 overall vacant positions.
Failure to retain experienced staff.
Fewer beds available for non covid patients (just as well considering there is fewer staff I suppose).
Quality and maintenance of NHS estate has deteriorated and "may lead to adverse impact on service performance" Staff burnout & ongoing infection control procedures.
Bottlenecks in discharging patients due to failure to tackle social care (staff numbers have shrunk there too).
Patients may need more complex care.

Many of these are long term issues. Maintenance issues were flagged back in 2013 according to the IFS. As mentioned previously Jeremy Hunt has been complaining about the lack of engagement in NHS workforce planning for several years. We are left spending £3 billion per annum on agency staff in England.

I take your point about the bits I didn't cut and paste... but the 11% additional spending rather suggests the government is not starving the NHS: more that the money is failing to be spent well.

In my view you can't spend a decade cutting services, spending less on maintenance and infrastructure, having fewer staff, not engage in workforce planning, ignoring increasing social care issues and expect the service to ping back in to shape.
We will have to agree to disagree.

Long thread with helpful graphs

NEW:

Britain’s grim winter of strikes, falling incomes and a worsening NHS crisis is not some unfortunate series of events

It’s the inevitable result of a decade of Tory austerity that steadily weakened the state’s capacity to respond to shocks

Thread:
twitter.com/jburnmurdoch/status/1606223922474627073?t=e5my8OHhUuyNKHmCrJ-nIQ&s=19

@Plbrookes Is it racist that Germany isn't allowed in Mercosur? Maybe you can stop with the fauxservative identity politics and accept that it's OK for European countries to do things together even if - shock horror - the people who live there are WHITE.

@Theluggage15 what's your opinion about the other crumbling services ? Brexit and its lamentable effect on the economy ? The failure of levelling up ?
Do you recognise that the conservative government is responsible for those
things ?
Do you think they should be given infinite chances to prove themselves in contrast to Labour who can never be forgiven for anything ?
Sadly I think the country is suffering Stockholm Syndrome. That posters like @MarshaBradyo think that bringing Corbyn into the conversation is reasonable says it all. To blame Labour for Johnson becoming PM is clearly ludicrous. Johnson was always going to win because of the toxic mix of 'getting brexit done' and his snake oil 'charisma'. There's some kind of contagious cognitive dissonance going on that welds folk to the tories which didn't happen in the 70s. Back then if a government was crap they were voted out. Simple.

The hourly Mumsnet "I hate the Tories" thread. Sigh.........

@ILoveeCakes do you think they have governed well ? Do they deserve another chance ?

The lefties are going to blame the Tories for Covid soon!

"The lefties" sounds so childish

@Luckydip1 the lefties ? Can we blame anything on the Conservatives ? 😂

I don't see any plans from the Tories (which is what this thread is about) to reform the NHS.
I don't think it unreasonable to say the shit state it is in is the (at least partial) responsibility of the party that has been in power for 12 years.
"Boring on" as you put it about how much funding has been provided isn't relevant.

We had a referendum about this.

Because it is.

I didn’t bring him up someone else did and I responded to an angry Labour voter

Like it or not Labour failed when they chose him as their leader in last election

Labour are so bad at looking to why they failed. They go on and on wah people voted Tory. Not once do they think I wonder why we did SO badly.

No ability to look at failures.

I agree, Corbyn was terrible (although I did like some of the policies). I haven't voted Labour since the Iraq war though.
Got an opinion on Johnson or Truss?
How did they do as leaders?

If you think the Labour Party understands economics, you only have to look at what Gordon Brown did, selling our gold reserves at the very bottom of the market, thanks Gordon.

I'm very proud to say , I dont think I've ever voted Tory.
This isn't to say I never would though.
I have no loyalty to any political party and don't understand why anyone would have, they're not football teams.