AIBU to ask how long the NHS has left?

[StrongCoffeeAvalanche]

Genuinely now have the mindset that's it's not 'will' the NHS go under but 'when'. I'm not in the NHS though so I guess I'm asking 2 questions here....

1. YABU the NHS will survive somehow or YANBU the NHS is going to go 100%

1. If IANBU when? How much longer do you think we have?

Instead of burying our heads in the sand , we need to talk about the future. People say I've paid my stamp but it's not enough to expect the state to fund our care needs in old age.

Despite everything I have read recently about the NHS I have had a really positive experience this week with my mum. Ambulance arrived without delay, we were only 15 mins outside the hospital before mum was taken into an A&E cubicle . She has since been transferred on to a ward . Every member of staff we have come into contact with (aside from one HCA) has been so pleasant and helpful and kept us updated . Large city hospital.

I have also had positive experiences with our GP service and dentist .

One of the main problems is ultimately bed blocking - you cannot safely, in good conscience, discharge a patient who has inadequate support at home. This is down to a lack of social care. What might help is a halfway between hospital and home, a nursing home almost, to facilitate recovery but allowing hospital beds to be made available for acutely unwell patients. Much as we were able to quickly set up hospitals for covid I do think this would hugely help plug a gap between hospital and home for a lot of people. Another issue is the huge mental health crisis in this country - there is nowhere for people to go apart from A&E, but they aren't equipped to deal with the huge, huge volume of patients they are seeing. Again, these patients require a lot of support and can be in A&E for a long time which prevents ambulances being able to offload their patients. This could potentially be solved by having more dedicated mental health units, and mental health trained ambulance staff, therefore bypassing A&E entirely. I realise all of this needs funding but it's certainly do-able. The NHS has huge potential to be made better, but we need to look outside of the facilities we have now & build more 'supportive' units for the care of the evolving health issues today. (Poor mental health and an aging population- alongside families where all adults are working means the gaps in caring that were filled in by relatives previously,are no longer viable) there are many many more issues but in my opinion this would certainly help. I think educating people on appropriate use of A&E doesn't work if there are no other options. I also think HCPs are increasingly taking a careful approach to managing patients just in case something goes wrong as they are under constant scrutiny now, whereas in the past Dr's & nurses were generally more trusted and respected. (Not that any of this is wrong - but there seems to be far less tolerance of 'human error' now)

Social care pay is terrible
I get paid more an hour to work in a shop.
I look on indeed daily for extra jobs / better jobs.
The majority of jobs are in care homes or working with council as caters on minimum wage.
This is the big scandal , there is no incentive to do these essential roles.

It's okay to disagree, I would always prioritise the young including infertility (we had no help for DS so not swaying my decision), I have no desire to be alive if I can't look after myself so LCP for me is the best option I would have in old age.

I would fund peads and revolutionary cancer care over care of the elderly if it came to a decision of cutting one. I would also say that we need to discharge people who are medically fit regardless of the home situation. Choices of care home locations shouldn't exist if it holds up discharge. I come from a culture were the young are responsible for the elders which I think should become a legal requirement. Me and DH have plans in place so we don't become a burden on DS but would lean on him say to be picked up from hospital and dropped home if we couldn't manage a taxi.

This would help with the ambulance delays by freeing up beds. Is the current crisis such that we need the escalation tents staffed by nursing + medical students to free up crews for the road. Can we drop to a single paramedic or tech with someone else driving (police, military, volunteers etc). What obvious is we can't maintain the same level of care we want to provide so what can we do to help solve the problem instead of just trying to do everything. Privatising the NHS isn't going to solve the recruitment crisis overnight nor is throwing money at the problem.

We need to look at efficiency measures such as although a greater infection risk would nightingale wards actually be better. Could mix sex wards help.

I do think we are on a war footing again and I do think change needs to happen. I don't think the NHS is failing at all, I think the system is showing how dedicated and resourceful it is. Truthfully I don't think any government could negotiate the current economic crisis, aging population, COVID and a war without upsetting someone. I also don't think they can provide a 4 hour wait in A&E post pandemic when flu etc is rising.

I'm 19 weeks pregnant and passed out a couple of days ago, smashed my face and bump on bathroom unit and floor.

Luckily DH was home so drove me straight to A&E. I waited an hour to be triaged, I was then put on a bed in the corridor next to the ambulance entrance so the doors were constantly open, I was shivering it was so cold. It took another hour to have bloods taken and a cannula fitted, 3 hours for a Dr to see me and they put a rehydration drip up. I waited another 3 hours before I was taken to the maternity ward.

It was 11pm at this point. I'd just fallen asleep up on the ward when we were all woken up for our beds to be moved onto the postnatal ward as not enough drs, nurses or midwives to cover both departments. At 9am we were moved back.

It was at that point I realised that none of us had been given so much as a cup of water or a jug. They came round and offered bread and butter or weetabix/cornflakes. There was no yoghurts, fruit, no option for toast.

I could go on but it's dire and I feel so so sorry for every single member of staff I come into contact with, they seemed stressed, tired, sad but still put on a smile for me and tried to make me laugh. I'll always be grateful for our NHS staff.

Grumpy "I would also say that we need to discharge people who are medically fit regardless of the home situation. Choices of care home locations shouldn't exist if it holds up discharge. I come from a culture were the young are responsible for the elders which I think should become a legal requirement."

how are you defining "medically fit"? Who are the "young"? Mum would only have me or cousin with medical conditions, or my sister two counties away.

Now seriously tempted to start a thread asking how family carers have been treated by the NHS

And how would that legal requirement work with the employment rights in this country of which there is fuck all

I get where you are coming from, and I think we agree on a half way measure, certain services need to be changed or less investment (we can't agree which ones, which is fair, everyone brings their own opinion to the table and it's valid, and I see where you are coming from definitely)

I do agree with you, bed blocking is a huge problem and what is causing an excruciating car crash for the NHS. I also agree that choice of home shouldn't be filtered in/given. Sadly if a facility comes available that can meet your needs you will have to go there. It's no different to having to travel to a major hospital to receive a certain treatment even though it's 100miles away from your home.

I do think they need to bring back convalescent/cottage hospitals back. These could be staffed by minimal Dr's and a small scale nursing/HCP staff, with also added support from adult social services, the local authority housing teams and the 3rd sector like age UK and other charity organisation.

I've worked in the 3rd sector most of my professional life, the pay isn't great no, but I've supported a range of people. I'd quite happily take a job in a cottage hospital visiting, helping with forms for adaptations, grants, benefits and referrals to home care, navigating discharge for families and friends. Be a nice little job 🙂

Of course it's insulting. All the posts on here about the nhs devolve into shit flinging about how one poster saw nurses sitting down and therefore all the nurses in the nhs are lazy bitches. No doubt that one poster who hates all hcps will be along in a heartbeat to tell us all about how the staff in the nhs are all knobs

We're working as hard as we can. It's nothing to do with nurses and drs, it's all higher ups.

Last week I did a bank shift in a&e I was on triage, I had in 2 hours

A man with shampoo in his eye
A woman with a sore finger (been sore for 9 weeks)
A woman who's prescription had run out
20 children with temperatures, none of which had had any medication for the temperature; 3 admitted.
A man who fell off a bike and scraped his knee
Someone who's blue inhaler had run out
4 chest pains, 3 of which were drug induced 1 admitted
4 query sepsis who needed antibiotics but gps were busy
3 foreign bodies who needed admitting for surgery to remove them.

Only 3 beds available in the hospital so lots of patients had to go back into the waiting room.

It's hell out there

I have a cautious optimism that we are at the low point for the NHS. Of course it needs funds and staffing but we are at the point now where something needs to be done about it and I believe it will be.

On another note, I find it hard to not feel so angry that people were lead to vote for Brexit because the excess money could be pumped into the NHS. It leaves a bitter taste.

Maybe when the teachers go on strike all the nhs bashing threads will turn into teacher bashing ones and that will be a nice change.

Unless they sort out structure it will fail. It is massively over funded and most money gets wasted on layer after layer of inefficient management and ridiculously expensive contractors. Not much money left for front line staff and patient care.

It will limp on for a while yet while the tories pay lip service

Don't worry any minute now, the £350 million a week liberated for the NHS by Brexit will kick in

Our hospital is under investigation they can't account for the loss of £122 million in the last financial year. Ernst and young auditing said £73 million were invoice queries.

www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/investigation-launched-after-122m-found-25825226.amp

Then why are there tonnes of people on crowdfunding sites raising money for their child's treatment and medication?

My son has an organ transplant.
Even medicare would only cover the cost of his anti rejection drugs for a certain amount of time, then it would be around 3000 dollars a month.
khn.org/news/no-cash-no-heart-transplant-centers-require-proof-of-payment/

"Medicare also covers kidney transplants for all patients with end-stage renal disease. But, there’s a catch. While the cost of a kidney transplant is covered for people younger than 65, the program halts payment for anti-rejection drugs after 36 months"

He has 8 weekly appointments for blood tests, is on 5 different medications and currently sees 3 different consultants for different conditions.

The NHS gives us all of this for free. I cannot imagine having to even try and navigate a life for him without that.

12 years ago the NHS was rated the best healthcare system in the world.

Since then: 12 years of Tories. Who have systematically underfunded the NGS, scammed millions for their mates in PPE contracts, track and trace and countless other corrupt schemes. I would be amazed if privatisation of the NHS for the profit of themselves and their mates was not the endgame.

The Tories absolutely HATE the NHS. It stands for everything they don't believe in - equal access for all no matter your background, class, religion, colour, sexuality, wealth, beliefs, the job you do, the people you hang around with. It provides a level playing field, no questions asked, and crucially, no profit in it for the wealthy minority. Much of it has been privatised and it has been underfunded deliberately for a very long time. Private health insurance will be a nightmare. Just look at the States. If you have a chronic illness or need constant visits to hospital, you will become bankrupt or die. People with conditions such as cancer, cystic fibrosis or motor neurone disease, for example, will struggle to find a decent insurance package that won't cost the earth or come with many caveats.

Children's mental health services have already been privatised. Brexit has caused a huge upheaval with many NHS staff leaving the country, Rather than giving up or saying it's all over, you can do something about it. Up and down the country people are fighting to save the NHS. Join a local group, sign a petition, write to your MP. There are many organisations out there working hard to save the NHS: Keep our NHS Public, We Own It, Just Treatment, and many more.

Aneurin Bevin, the founder of the NHS in 1948, came up with some amazing quotes, including “It [the NHS] will last as long as there are folk left with the faith to fight for it” and “Illness is neither an indulgence for which people have to pay, nor an offence for which they should be penalised, but a misfortune the cost of which should be shared by the community.”

The Tories voted against the formation of the NHS some 22 times before the bill was passed to create it. Their mission to destroy it started then and has never stopped. The privatisation of the NHS is unpalatable to most people, even the most ardent Tory voters, so believe me, you can do your bit to stop it.

I do think there needs to be some option to charge people within the NHS. Even if in the majority of cases the charge then gets discounted to free or a token amount.

My nan in law refused to move from her house to a place that was suitable for her needs. For more than 2 years she had an ambulance at least twice a week to pick her up off the floor. At some point that should have become chargeable to her. It is her right to insist that she stays there but it should also be her responsibility to pay for the costs of doing so. It wasn't temporary and wasn't going to get better, we were just smacking our heads against a brick wall. Unsurprisingly she eventually had an injury meaning she requires complex care for the rest of her life and has lost her quality of life. The NHS is picking up most if the tab for this.

What you are failing to realise is that people are living longer with very complex healthcare needs which would have killed the person quickly in 1948. We have gotten very good at keeping people alive but it's very expensive. We want low taxes , no insurance based system but limitless care. A new healthcare system does not have to be like the USA there's many other hybrid systems like in Europe and Australia. Maybe a sensible discussion about funding needs to be had..

The NHS has helped me and my DS in ways that would have bankrupted us in America, but while nothing about the way it carries out services make sense I.e come for a scan on Tues, an apt on Fri then bloods on the following Monday which were actually needed for your apt on Fri. And yes we know you phoned and tried to alert us of this fact but computer said no and we will try and get it right in the next 6 week cycle (they don't)

I was an inpatient for 10 days in October- I was discharged on Sunday but there was no pharmacist working in the major hospital of the country on a Sunday so it turned out to be 32 hours layer that I actually went home.

I know of someone who today went to a&e, was found to have broken a bone, got cast and then sent to a different hospital to wait again for pain meds as there was no pharmacist on to prescribe.

So these incidents just seem like short sighted thinking. If patients can't be discharged on a Sunday and it takes all day the next day to make up a basic bag of meds due to a lack of pharmacy staffing. No wonder there is a bed shortage
And if patients are needing to go to 2 hospitals to get basic treatment it's an absolute farce.