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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

AIBU to ask how long the NHS has left?

207 replies

StrongCoffeeAvalanche · 01/01/2023 20:41

Genuinely now have the mindset that's it's not 'will' the NHS go under but 'when'. I'm not in the NHS though so I guess I'm asking 2 questions here....

  1. YABU the NHS will survive somehow or YANBU the NHS is going to go 100%
  1. If IANBU when? How much longer do you think we have?
OP posts:
Busybody2022 · 01/01/2023 22:00

Our area have merged hospitals to one across two sites and split what the different sites provide. As part of it they created a UTC at one. Recently my son broke his collar bone and we used the UTC and were in and out in 90 minutes. The system worked really well as we weren't in the A&E queue. I was really impressed.

Trying to get care for his chronic disabilities is a whole other shitshow though and I'm devastated for him. Private options don't even exist as an alternative.

ColdHandsHotHead · 01/01/2023 22:04

EmmaEmerald · 01/01/2023 21:05

Grumpy "I can see GPs moving towards a more dentist like model going forward"

how so, like paying for particular treatments? I have an NHS dentist but just go for check ups.

Indeed. I have an NHS dentist but need treatment not available on the NHS. I will have to go private for it and it's going to cost thousands. Upwards of £5K.

IWannaBeInTheRoomWhereItHappens · 01/01/2023 22:12

As someone with a long term degenerative condition this completely terrifies me because I can't see the Tories going with a sane system like parts of Europe - its all going to be about making their rich mates richer, let's face it.

In all honesty if something like the US system is brought in I am screwed and so are millions of others. My friend in the US with my condition died because she did not have enough insurance to get hospital treatment. I might as well give up now and stop my meds if that really does happen. I tell myself it won't, I'm being daft, the NHS will survive, it always does, but I don't know that it will this time. My local hospital has queues of ambulances waiting 30 hours at the moment and the government want to close down our A and E to 'consolidate resources and efficiency'. It's a complete nightmare.

DrunkenSailor · 01/01/2023 22:12

Experience from yesterday. I had severe midcycle bleeding for several hours, felt faint, was alone at home and called 111 for advice. They "booked an appointment" for me to go to the local hospital (a major London hospital) - to see a doctor there (i was told).

When i reached there, i was told there was no appointment system and that i should join the A&E queue - minimum wait of 5 hours and nowhere to sit except the floor. The admission staff complained 111 were misadvising patients and promising them appointments while all the hospital had was A&E (and apparently no facilities for an ultrasound scan).

I didn't need A&E! I would not have gone had I known that was the option offered. It baffles me why 111 is directing patients to A&E when all many of us need is an urgent care centre. Oh - and it took 45 mins on the phone in a queue to even reach 111 (up from the 8 mins i remember it took me 3 years ago). All that time spent was a waste.

refuge123 · 01/01/2023 22:13

Why dont they just have a phone line for NHS non emergencies.
It would clear up the line?

EmmaEmerald · 01/01/2023 22:14

DrunkenSailor · 01/01/2023 22:12

Experience from yesterday. I had severe midcycle bleeding for several hours, felt faint, was alone at home and called 111 for advice. They "booked an appointment" for me to go to the local hospital (a major London hospital) - to see a doctor there (i was told).

When i reached there, i was told there was no appointment system and that i should join the A&E queue - minimum wait of 5 hours and nowhere to sit except the floor. The admission staff complained 111 were misadvising patients and promising them appointments while all the hospital had was A&E (and apparently no facilities for an ultrasound scan).

I didn't need A&E! I would not have gone had I known that was the option offered. It baffles me why 111 is directing patients to A&E when all many of us need is an urgent care centre. Oh - and it took 45 mins on the phone in a queue to even reach 111 (up from the 8 mins i remember it took me 3 years ago). All that time spent was a waste.

But have you got an urgent care centre?

are you okay now, I do hope so.

DrunkenSailor · 01/01/2023 22:15

refuge123 · 01/01/2023 22:13

Why dont they just have a phone line for NHS non emergencies.
It would clear up the line?

111 is the number for non-emergencies.

MoscowMules · 01/01/2023 22:16

refuge123 · 01/01/2023 22:13

Why dont they just have a phone line for NHS non emergencies.
It would clear up the line?

I think that's what 111 was supposed to be, but their scripts always end up sending people to A and E.

It's ridiculous.

3luckystars · 01/01/2023 22:17

The population is getting bigger and people are living longer. The sums just don’t add up anymore.
The nhs was a great idea but it’s not working anymore.

I would imagine there will be a system similar to Ireland, like a hybrid. Very poor people will still have access to treatment but people who can afford to pay will have to pay. I think a new plan will be announced by end of February.
something has to change as it can’t go on like this.

Mybonnielad · 01/01/2023 22:17

Bundlebuns · 01/01/2023 21:16

I'm going to buck the trend and say that I took my 5 yr old ds to A&E on Thurs evening after a fall playing football. We were in hospital a total of 1hr and 15 minutes. He was triaged, x-rayed and diagnosed/treated in this time. He has a broken collarbone. I had a call the following day from the fracture clinic and his x-ray had already been reviewed by an orthopaedic consultant. He was brought back into hospital for the optimum sling to be fitted. I was blown away by the service! I am in no way diminishing the poor experience of anyone else. Simply describing the incredible care we received, and my gratitude for our wonderful NHS

This is just one anecdote. I bet there are hundreds more with a vastly different outcome.

Vinvertebrate · 01/01/2023 22:17

It’s terrifying that we are expected to rely on the NHS and a grotesque dereliction of duty by successive governments not to plan for the eminently foreseeable: demand always exceeding supply when its “free”.

Please let’s follow Europe and not the USA (but I doubt it).

DrunkenSailor · 01/01/2023 22:18

@EmmaEmerald yes there are 2 hospitals with urgent care centres nearby which i have visited for my children previously (but turns out there wasnt one at this hospital i was told to visit- for the first time). Thank you- i am better now.

MarshaBradyo · 01/01/2023 22:19

3luckystars · 01/01/2023 22:17

The population is getting bigger and people are living longer. The sums just don’t add up anymore.
The nhs was a great idea but it’s not working anymore.

I would imagine there will be a system similar to Ireland, like a hybrid. Very poor people will still have access to treatment but people who can afford to pay will have to pay. I think a new plan will be announced by end of February.
something has to change as it can’t go on like this.

I agree things have changed since inception. Weirdly Labour could get away with monetary changes over Tories as public might be more amenable to Labour bringing in charges

3luckystars · 01/01/2023 22:20

I should have said the system in Ireland means that anyone poor, or with long term medical needs, or aged over 85 or has special needs have a medical card, where everything is free. It’s not just for the poor. Sorry I worded it so badly.

Busybody2022 · 01/01/2023 22:23

3luckystars · 01/01/2023 22:20

I should have said the system in Ireland means that anyone poor, or with long term medical needs, or aged over 85 or has special needs have a medical card, where everything is free. It’s not just for the poor. Sorry I worded it so badly.

I'm not opposed to a system like that, at all.

I think we need to tackle social care as priority too.

Grumpybutfunny · 01/01/2023 22:24

@Bigbadfish no body is being murdered. Yes staff are taking it personally when they are skipping breaks, working extra shifts whilst being balloted for strike action because they won't even pay us properly. The last two night I've worked, I haven't even had an uninterrupted 20 minute break. DH was at work both Christmas and New years weekend as was I......because we are short staffed.

It's becoming painfully obvious as a country we can't afford to pay for the level of care we want so decision are going to have to be made which are likely going to be unpopular. It's highly unlikely we are all going to agree we're those cuts/changes will fall. As you can see from mine and @Snowmoab discussion.

My parents have used the NHS for emergency care and planned care recently. Yes communication wasn't great but they were seen in a timely and effective manner. Even tho I would call the service she had excellent, my mum would criticise every step and is still complaining she is having to pay to have a wart removed!

I've been the person throwing up in A&E for five hours before being seen, I've also spent the night in resus due to the same condition. Both times I was perfectly safe if embarrassed for throwing up on a colleague 😬 no beds to admit me so I was sent home to a very apologetic husband, I got a follow up appointment to try and prevent it happening again within two weeks.

I've currently got cold that will likely go to my chest, so will need a repeat prescription so we don't end up with a repeat of the above. I've logged in to our GP website and will have it to pick up on Tuesday. Technology has a big place in the future of the NHS. My issues started 8 years ago and I couldn't even book an online GP appointment then never mind order what I need for collection. It was 50-100 redials to get through to reception.

To all those saying service like infertility and weight loss surgery should be cut. Imagine that is your friend who can never have a child because they can't afford IVF or your child dying in their 30s from problems related to obesity. Would you rather have the current situation of long waits or nothing at all for them?

I don't think the Tories will end the NHS and I don't think it will collapse. We will get through the down turn in the economy as a country with a chaotic system that serves the many and fails the few. As the economic situation improves it will become a political football once again to improve standards and the cycle will start again.

I think long term you are going to see an end to doctors, nurses, PA, paramedics etc and medical education will become a more fluid system of a three year introductory degree (probably bench marked to the current nursing degree) anything after that will be post graduate exams and portfolios. The level of responsibility will be linked to which of these exams you have passed (no doubt which you will have to pay for) and pay will be linked to that. No doubt the tasks assigned to each level will be pushed down over the years to cut costs. Have a look at the healthcare science program and STP to see this happening now.

Oblomov22 · 01/01/2023 22:27

It's already being privatised behind the scenes.

olympicsrock · 01/01/2023 22:27

Grumpybutfunny · 01/01/2023 21:02

Can people stop with these threads it's really hurtful for the staff trying to keep going through this crisis. The NHS isn't finished it's just going through one of the hardest times in its history. Hopefully once summer comes and respiratory virus die back for a few months things will improve.

Changes are going to have to be made it's a question of where. Giving the NHS more money isn't an option (if anything it needs to go to education) it's time top ups, ceiling of care and the criteria for safe discharge we're discussed on a National scale.

Difficult decisions need to be made about what level of staffing we are going to provide is it going to be PA and nurses doing 99% of the work or do we want to keep a Dr led front of house service. (HCPs that a discussion for another thread 😉)

I can see GPs moving towards a more dentist like model going forward. I can also see no essential services like prenatal classes, support groups etc being moved to the charity sector

You are wrong . I’m a HCP and desperate for the general public to understand quite how broken the system is.

Staff are going to quit in their hundreds and the whole system will be a house of cards.

Bigbadfish · 01/01/2023 22:30

Grumpybutfunny · 01/01/2023 22:24

@Bigbadfish no body is being murdered. Yes staff are taking it personally when they are skipping breaks, working extra shifts whilst being balloted for strike action because they won't even pay us properly. The last two night I've worked, I haven't even had an uninterrupted 20 minute break. DH was at work both Christmas and New years weekend as was I......because we are short staffed.

It's becoming painfully obvious as a country we can't afford to pay for the level of care we want so decision are going to have to be made which are likely going to be unpopular. It's highly unlikely we are all going to agree we're those cuts/changes will fall. As you can see from mine and @Snowmoab discussion.

My parents have used the NHS for emergency care and planned care recently. Yes communication wasn't great but they were seen in a timely and effective manner. Even tho I would call the service she had excellent, my mum would criticise every step and is still complaining she is having to pay to have a wart removed!

I've been the person throwing up in A&E for five hours before being seen, I've also spent the night in resus due to the same condition. Both times I was perfectly safe if embarrassed for throwing up on a colleague 😬 no beds to admit me so I was sent home to a very apologetic husband, I got a follow up appointment to try and prevent it happening again within two weeks.

I've currently got cold that will likely go to my chest, so will need a repeat prescription so we don't end up with a repeat of the above. I've logged in to our GP website and will have it to pick up on Tuesday. Technology has a big place in the future of the NHS. My issues started 8 years ago and I couldn't even book an online GP appointment then never mind order what I need for collection. It was 50-100 redials to get through to reception.

To all those saying service like infertility and weight loss surgery should be cut. Imagine that is your friend who can never have a child because they can't afford IVF or your child dying in their 30s from problems related to obesity. Would you rather have the current situation of long waits or nothing at all for them?

I don't think the Tories will end the NHS and I don't think it will collapse. We will get through the down turn in the economy as a country with a chaotic system that serves the many and fails the few. As the economic situation improves it will become a political football once again to improve standards and the cycle will start again.

I think long term you are going to see an end to doctors, nurses, PA, paramedics etc and medical education will become a more fluid system of a three year introductory degree (probably bench marked to the current nursing degree) anything after that will be post graduate exams and portfolios. The level of responsibility will be linked to which of these exams you have passed (no doubt which you will have to pay for) and pay will be linked to that. No doubt the tasks assigned to each level will be pushed down over the years to cut costs. Have a look at the healthcare science program and STP to see this happening now.

Yes they are. When patients who could have been saved are dismissed and later die, when wait times mean what was treatable is now terminal and when people just straight up can't see a Dr for love nor money and die as a result that is murder.

Oh Boohoo I honestly couldn't give a shit. The system is broken. No one saying its the staff fault so again get over it.

onmywayamarillo · 01/01/2023 22:35

NHS is awesome and the British back it wholeheartedly... to the point where we will vote this shitshow of government out and get it back to where it needs to be

3luckystars · 01/01/2023 22:40

Of course it is awesome, and incredible that it has lasted this long. That was because of tremendous hard work by the staff, that has nearly killed them all. The model just doesn’t work anymore and needs to change. That change will be for the better.

Pelo22 · 01/01/2023 22:41

@MoscowMules but then it's all linked I guess

I'm allergic to exercise (genuinely). Without my (expensive) dermatology medication I can't do anything. No hoovering, no hot baths, no walking, absolutely no exercise at all
Which then makes me REALLY unfit and doesn't help my weight and prone to bigger issues
In effect it's better and cheaper for them to let me have my injections from dermatology and happily exercise daily rather than sit and become housebound because I can't move
Being able to exercise without head to toe hives for the first time in 25 years was priceless and I exercise now because I get to, not because I have to

Same with weight loss surgery

justasking111 · 01/01/2023 22:43

Adviceneeded200 · 01/01/2023 21:46

I've a mate who has had a private operation cancelled for lack of a bed and is struggling for a new date. I wonder if NHS have taken over more of the private provision?

Well they are here in Wales. Friends daughter working for the private sector says they're struggling getting appointments in a timely manner which the patient's were used to pre covid. Two weeks to get an appointment is now six weeks. Some patients paying £1500 for a service that is unachievable now

Cavend · 01/01/2023 22:44

It's imminent, sadly. Earlier today, i heard of someone having a mild stroke, and she was in A & E for 30 hours (not unusual now i know) and she asked a nurse for an aspirin. The nurse replied "that's not my job".

MoscowMules · 01/01/2023 22:44

I'm sorry but I'd rather someone not have a baby, than some elderly person die alone and in pain on the floor when an ambulance couldn't get to them.

One results in a possible human life.
The other results in the death of an actual human life.

It's not a nice choice, yes it seems unking and cruel, but sometimes choices like that need to be made.

I'm speaking as someone who battled infertility, diagnosed with a balanced chromosomal translocation and PCOS. So it's not like I don't know the sadness and pain of infertility, weirdly I accepted my fate to only then fall pregnant by complete surprise. I have however only had the one child, never went on to try and have more.